Beeson Podcast, Episode #637 Philip Nation Jan. 17, 2023 >>Announcer: Welcome to the Beeson podcast, coming to you from Beeson Divinity School on the campus of Samford University. Now your hosts, Doug Sweeney and Kristen Padilla. >>Doug Sweeney: Welcome to the Beeson Podcast. I am your host, Doug Sweeney, here with my co-host, Kristen Padilla. Last week we began a series on bible publishing with Beeson alumnus Jeff Gissing of Tyndale House. This week we resume our series on bibles with another Beeson grad who works at Thomas Nelson in Nashville. Before we dive in, let me invite you back to campus on Tuesday morning, January 24th at 11:00 AM for our opening convocation service. Our new Anglican Chair of Divinity, Dr. Jonathan Linebaugh, will preach in that service. He’ll launch our spring series on the life of Jesus. Find out more about coming back to chapel and enjoy checking out our entire spring series at www.BeesonDivinity.com/worship. Today’s guest is joining us by Zoom from the Music City, Nashville, Tennessee. Kristen, who is this man? And how has the Lord been using him in recent years? >>Kristen Padilla: Thanks, Doug. Hi, everyone. We have with us today as our guest Philip Nation. Philip is Vice President and Publisher of Thomas Nelson Bibles at Harper Collins Christian Publishing. He earned his MDIV degree here at Beeson, so he’s one of our fine proud Beeson alums. And he’s also a graduate of Samford University. Philip is ordained in the SBC. He has served as a pastor and in various other ministries. He’s an author. So, we’re going to hopefully get into some if not all of that today on the show. But first, welcome Philip to the Beeson Podcast. >>Philip: Thank you so much. It’s good to be home in this kind of virtual kind of sense. >>Kristen Padilla: That’s right. Well, we’re looking forward to having you back on campus hopefully one day soon. As a way of a longer introduction, I’ve given a short bio but I would love it if you could introduce yourself more fully to our listeners. Where are you from? And how did you come to faith in Jesus Christ? >>Philip: Well, I’m actually from Birmingham as well. I grew up just on the other side of town from Samford University and Beeson Divinity School, over in the Huffman and Roebuck area, if anybody is familiar with the geography of Birmingham. And my mom and dad had been in smaller towns and they moved to Birmingham and met each other and fell in love and got married and then I came along after my older sister. And it was my father that led me to faith in Christ. I am blessed to say that we were active in church life during my childhood and I got to hear the gospel from a number of different people, our pastor, Sunday school teachers along the way. And it was actually on a Sunday morning before we went to service that I went to my father in the den and told him that I was ready to become a Christian. And so he said, “Well, son, go get my bible.” And we sat down on our old brown sofa and he walked me through the gospel message again. And I still have a very vivid memory of us kneeling down on the floor beside that old sofa and he leading me as I prayed to put my faith in Christ. It has been an interesting little detail that shortly thereafter he took my childhood bible and wrote in the flyleaf the date that I became a Christian. And I didn’t really think about it. I’ve had that bible on my shelf. It’s always been in a prominent place in my office throughout the years. And lo and behold it is a Thomas Nelson bible that we still publish to this day. The exact same cover. The exact same type setting. And so that’s just been a really kind of full circle moment for me – thinking about my salvation and my father’s role there. But it was the ministry of the local church and the ministry of my mom and dad. >>Doug Sweeney: That is wonderful. What a heritage. So, Philip, when did you start to feel like the Lord was leading you into full time ministry? And why did you decide to come to seminary? And why did you come to Beeson? >>Philip: Yeah. So, when I was 15 years old, as I said, we were always in church. We were a part of a very revivalistic, healthy ... the youth group was very focused on discipleship and growing up in your faith, and so at the age of 15 I was praying, as I did on a regular basis, and said to the Lord, “What am I supposed to do with my life?” And I had all sorts of visions of grandeur, as 15 year old boys do, and it was a very clear sudden call in my life at the age of 15 that the Lord made it very clear that I was going to be one who would proclaim his word throughout my life. And I had no idea what that meant. And quite honestly it scared me just witless. I was very shy as a kid. I didn’t like doing oral book reports in classes. And so I wrestled with the Lord for about a year, not telling anybody about it. But then told my parents and then we told our church family and they were supportive. So, I attended college. I finished an undergrad degree in religion there at Samford. And really didn’t know where I wanted to go to seminary. I was having a few little crises of understandings around the faith. And so my father in his wisdom ... dad worked for a utility company, was a deacon in our church, and very involved in all of these decisions. He said, “Well, son, they started that new seminary over there on the campus. Why don’t you just go talk to the guy who’s in charge of it?” And so I didn’t know up from down in terms of well known theologians. But of course your predecessor, Timothy George, had founded the school just a few years earlier. And so I made an appointment. And on a Thursday afternoon had a 20 minute conversation with Dr. Timothy George and thought, “That’s the person I want to study under.” And it was his influence and I’m very blessed to say that over these three decades since that he and I have forged a good friendship. And I consider him to be a major influence on my life and Beeson helped me to see that there was a much broader church than just my church, Southern Baptist church in Birmingham. And so I was very blessed. I consider myself very blessed to have had the influence of those great professors at Beeson and that time there. >>Kristen Padilla: Well, you have already mentioned the faith of your parents and then a little bit about Beeson. And I think those converge together in my next question. And it has to do with this new scholarship that you and your dad started here in 2021. In the name and memory of your mom. So, I would love for you to tell our listeners who is this scholarship for? Why did you establish it? And why did you name it after your mom? >>Philip: Yeah, so a couple of years ago I started thinking through all of the people who had helped me along the way and granted, I’ve mentioned my father several times. My mom, Delores Immanuel Nation, was such an influence in our home because she was just determined to serve other people and to grow in her faith, and just a godly woman. And so I’ve reached a point in my life where I thought I can now begin to help others who are on the journey through seminary. So, I sat down with my dad one day and I said, “Hey, I’m going to establish a scholarship at Beeson in honor of mom that will help other Baptist students who are headed toward vocational church life.” That’s what mom was very focused on in her life, was just how she could serve through the local church. She was always so very grateful for faithful pastors and worship pastors and youth ministers. All of those that would serve on staff and then the role that she had played in my life of encouraging me through the good times and the hard times of church life and vocational ministry. And so dad was immediately elated with the idea. He and I then began the process of talking with the folks there at Beeson. And we were happy to establish this scholarship that will be of a benefit to those that are looking toward a vocational ministry life in our baptistic heritage. >>Doug Sweeney: That is great and we are so grateful to your family for this blessing for our students. So, Philip, how did you get from being a seminary student thinking about pastoral ministry, and I know you still have an extensive preaching ministry all over the place, but how did you become a bible publisher? And then how did you get to Thomas Nelson? They publish a lot of bibles. And then I want to follow up, Kristen, just a little bit and let our listeners learn about the kinds of bibles Thomas Nelson is publishing these days. >>Philip: Yeah. So, I’ll take it in little bit sized chunks. So, I served in church life and in vocational ministry in part time positions while I was a student at Beeson. And then at the tail end of my degree time Angie, my wife, and I got married. And then shortly after my last semester I began serving as a pastor. And so I’ve served as a pastor, a minister of education, a church planter, and I began doing writing and editing for friends while I was a church planter in my mid thirties. And God had been very faithful along the way through ministry. Again, ministry is not always easy. It’s not always hard. It involves people. We are all tough to deal with at times and we all get to see God’s grace at work. And so I love the proclamation and the discipling work of the local church, the care ministry. And so we planted a new church in a northern metro suburb of Atlanta where there were not enough churches because the population was growing so quickly. But to support my church planting habits, I needed to find some other streams of income. And so I started doing some writing and editing. And through that process Lifeway Christian Resources offered me a position, which just kind of came out of the blue, as the Editor in Chief of Discipleship Materials. But again, God had been so faithful, sovereignly working through the process, that we had begun the process of merging our church plant with another church plant that was just a few miles away. And it kind of felt as if we’re one church, we’re just in two locations. We all had the same idea at the same time. And so those two churches merged together and I passed the baton on to a younger pastor and began my work through the publishing ranks. And I was at Lifeway for about eight and a half years. But during all of that time of leading in the ministry development and leading in adult bible study publishing I was still a bi-vocational pastor. And I was still preaching around the country and around the world, and at conferences. And so I’ve always been in conjunction with the local church, and I think that’s the healthiest way to do Christian publishing, is to still be a churchman. And so from there I did go back into full time vocational church ministry as a pastor for a few years and then Thomas Nelson, one of the largest bible publishers in the world, knocked on my door. And invited me to become the Bible Publisher for this storied legacy company. And so it’s been a joy to be able to steward the publishing work that began in the late 1700s and extends on two centuries plus later. >>Doug Sweeney: All right. And then just give our listeners just a little bit of a feel for which bibles they may have on their shelves at home that Thomas Nelson has published. >>Philip: So, Thomas Nelson, we’re actually commercially the largest publisher of the King James Version Bible in North America. And many people are surprised at how popular and well read the KJV still is. And so we shepherd that work. And then Thomas Nelson in the late ‘70s and early ‘80s began publishing the New King James Version Bible. It is a significant modern translation in the line of all modern translations and still holds a dear place in many people’s hearts. And so we’re the translation owners of that particular version and steward it. And then recently in just the last few years we became the steward of the New English Translation (NET) which is academically well respected and a very transparent translation in the fact that they’ve published over 63,000 translator notes to go along with that version of scripture so that people will see what was the committee thinking when they translated this verse this way. And alongside of those translations, it’s all sorts of text and reference and devotional bibles, but I think probably part of that highlight is we have been blessed to also publish over the last few decades a number of study bibles that are kind of cornerstone study bibles. One from Warren Wiersbe, one of the largest ones, most well read is the Study Bible from John MacArthur. But then also the KJV Study Bible, the NKJV Study Bible. Along with a host of others. And so it’s a big catalog of bibles that takes a lot of logistical heft to keep it going. It’s fun work, it’s hard work, it’s complicated. But it is the kind of work that you think, “I get to publish the one book that always fulfills its promise.” >>Kristen Padilla: Well, you had mentioned early on in the show about the bible that your dad had when you became a Christian being a Thomas Nelson bible. And I happen to look over in my office and I can see my first bible, when I became a Christian, and it’s called The Precious Moments Bible. (laughs) I don’t know if that’s still in print. >>Philip: We still publish it. >>Kristen Padilla: Okay! So, I thought, “Well, I have a Thomas Nelson bible as my first bible as well.” You mentioned bible translations. So, how often are bible translations revised? What goes into the thinking and the process of, “Oh, we need a new bible translation?” Or, “We need to update a bible translation?” I wonder if you can give us some insight into that process? >>Philip: Yeah. In the English language we have the quintessential embarrassment of riches when it comes to bible translations in this modern era. Technology has helped us along so very well. And each translation committee makes their own determinations as to how often should a translation be updated. And so for example, the New King James Version, which reached its full translation in 1984, the work began in the late ‘70s, the New Testament was published in ’82, and by ’84 kind of all the proverbial kinks were worked out. And it’s never been revised. It’s been the most stable of all of the modern translations. Whereas other translations normally it is a couple of decades in between any kind of major revisions. Now we’ve seen in the last few years a couple of the other modern translations that have gone through minor revisions, but enough to where the copyright page needed to change and we as readers needed to be alerted that this was a revision. But in a sense, it really is a decadal type of decision that is made on revising. And so the King James Version a lot of people know it was published in 1611. But then a major revision was done in the 1760s and another revision was done in the late 1800s. Most KJVs that are published today use that 1769 edition. But then you had in 1901 the American Standard Version. And then in 1950 you had the Revised Standard Version, the RSV, which is actually one of my favorites. And I plan on doing some work in the bible publishing industry around it. And so there are some of them that it goes for 50 years. But I would say generally the translation committees are looking at doing revisions anywhere from every 15 to 20 years as the English language changes. >>Doug Sweeney: Tell us a little bit about what goes into marketing bibles, Philip? I know there’s some Christians out there maybe even a few listening to us now who think marketing is a bad word to associate with the word of God itself. But you know full well that creative marketing really helps us get God’s word into people’s lives and into people’s hands. So, if you’re in charge of bible publishing, what’s the kind of thinking you put into the marketing process? >>Philip: It is an oddity to try to process through. And the team that I lead, half of our team are editors that are working in kind of a project management mode of whenever we’re rolling out a new type setting or a new study bible. And the other half for the most part are all, they’re all in the marketing. And so we’re thinking through how do we promote not just the buying of a bible, but the engagement of the bible? And so there is marketing that is email lists and it’s going to conferences and setting up booths and it’s Amazon ads and Facebook ads, and all of the things that you do to sell a thing. Because I do work for a publicly traded company. And so we do have a budget that we’re trying to meet. But on our team, and again I’ll say I’m just blessed with who I get to work with, we feel this as a spiritual stewardship of how do we wake up on a Friday morning and think, “How do I help one more person buy and engage their bible?” And so much of what we do in our messaging is to communicate to a potential reader and buyer of a bible that there is a message of hope here for you. That there is a way for you to know who God is and who he wants to make you to be. And so our marketing is not like what you will see about drills or cars or the [inaudible 00:20:18] joint down the street, but instead our marketing is around the idea of how can we help the person who is not yet engaged with the bible, how can we help them see that this is an accessible book to the inaccessible glories of God that he’s made a way for? And so it is a narrow path that we have to slice through, but I’ve got some faithful men and women that I get to do it with. >Kristen Padilla: I would love to hear, Philip, about what Thomas Nelson does with publishing or selling bibles globally. Is Thomas Nelson working on translations other than an English translation? Are you selling outside of the US? What does it look like getting the word of God into the hands of people around the world? >>Philip: So, by virtue of Thomas Nelson being within the Harper Collins eco system we have partners all over the world in all sorts of different countries. And so just today earlier from recording this I was working through a particular business plan for a new bible that’s going to be designed for teenagers and young adults. And part of that is, okay, I have to think about our partners that are in other parts of the world that are going to sell it both into English language markets but also about these bibles and their ancillary note systems of could they be translated into another language? And so in the work of Nelson bibles we very frequently license out the note sets for a study bible to local publishers in other countries for them to translate into their indigenous languages. We sell our English language bibles into all of the English speaking places around the world. And then with translations, there are times where we do license them out and help facilitate the license of translations to other countries where they can be translated. I mentioned earlier in our conversation about the New English Translation (NET), and the translation holders of it have a very ministry-minded view of how their translation is used. And they’re very liberal with it. They want it to be translated into a multitude of languages. And so they make the entrance fee, as it were, the license, either very low or it doesn’t exist at all. Simply because they want to make sure that the word of God can be translated into every tongue for every tribe and nation. >>Doug Sweeney: We also want our listeners to know, Philip, about your writing ministry. You are a prolific author and of course we don’t have time here to talk about all the books that you’ve done. But Kristen and I thought that one of the books you’ve done that might be especially good for our listeners just to pick up and read and use devotionally is your book entitled, “Habits For Our Holiness: How The Spiritual Disciplines Grow Us Up, Draw Us Together, and Send Us Out.” Could we focus just for a minute or two on this book? Tell our listeners a little bit about it. And Kristen and I want to encourage them to read this. >>Philip: Well, I do appreciate that. When I was doing my doctoral work at Southeastern Seminary I did my project on the issue of missional leadership. And so I had dug very deeply into this whole idea of what is missional living? And how does it intersect with the various parts of our lives? And it was through my studies at Beeson that I first got introduced to the classic views of spiritual disciplines. And that’s where this book “Habits for Our Holiness” came from. It was that intersection of how is it that we mature in our faith and doesn’t the maturing of our faith naturally lead us to live on mission for Christ in our daily lives at work and at home and if he calls us to some far flung part of the globe? And again, in the kindness of God, I’ve been blessed to participate in the writing, the co-writing, the helping of writing, the editing, of over 25 published works. And they range from simple bible studies to technical missiological books. But this particular one, “Habits For Our Holiness,” is the book that took me the longest to write. Probably, I tell people it took me about ten years. And it should if you’re going to write about spiritual disciplines. And I love all of the great classic works on spiritual disciplines, but I always thought that there was two things missing. One was the community aspect as to how practicing the disciplines draws believers together and it binds our hearts together. But then secondly is by practicing the spiritual disciplines, how it makes us a witness to our neighbors. And so I wrote this book for people who needed an introduction to the disciplines. So, it’s not the heaviest and the deepest. It’s a very accessible work that I wrote for modern believers to say, okay, if you study your bible, if you pray, if you fast, when you do these things, when you practice a life of simplicity, which doesn’t mean abandoning everything and living in a cave, but when you have a full fledge trust in the Lord for daily provisions, if you will rest in Christ as a spiritual discipline, how will that help you bind your heart to the church and how will it help your lost neighbor see Christ at work within you? And so it was a long labor, but I was so joyful to be able to see it come into print. So, “Habits For Our Holiness” is something I still get asked to speak about to this day. And preach on. Just very recently I did a conference at a church about spiritual disciplines and growing in your faith. And so I appreciate you asking me about it, because it is, it was, I know people say “it’s a labor of love,” but it really was for me. It was hard to write it, but I loved writing it. >>Kristen Padilla: Well, listeners, go to Amazon and put in the search bar, “Habits For Our Holiness” by Philip Nation. I’m sure it will be the first one to come up. Philip, we’re out of time. But thank you for being our guest on the show today. However, before we let you go we always like to end by asking our guests what the Lord has been teaching them. So, Philip, what has the Lord been teaching you? What has he been doing in your heart and in your devotional time that could serve as a word of encouragement as we end today’s show? >>Philip: The thing that God has been doing in my heart recently has been around the issue of revival. And it is has just been drilled into my heart by the Spirit using the word that as I have just been longing and praying for a spiritual awakening to once again visit our land, our country, and revive the church – that I have a passion for that because I so desperately need it. And so it has been again a hard work and a joyful work that the spirit has done in my life, saying Philip as you have so passionately prayed for this to happen across the land, let’s just begin with you and see how I might continuously revive your heart in the context of your local church life with your family, with your wife, with your friends, and allow that to be the work that the Spirit is doing in me. And so I pray that our listeners will join me in that prayer that as we hope for God to send a spiritual awakening to the land, that we will begin by saying, “God, how much do you revive my own heart, first?” >>Doug Sweeney: Amen. That is wonderful. We pray regularly around here that the Lord would pour his Holy Spirit out on Beeson Divinity School and the members of the larger Beeson family, including the people who are listening to us right now. So, that’s a wonderful way to close. Thank you, Philip Nation, for being with us today. Thank you listeners for tuning in. Philip Nation is Vice President and Publisher of Thomas Nelson Bibles at Harper Collins Christian Publishing. We’re proud to say he is an alumnus of Beeson Divinity School. And a good ongoing friend of our whole community. Thanks, Philip, for being with us. We love you our listeners. We’re praying for you. And we say goodbye for now. >>Kristen Padilla: You’ve been listening to the Beeson podcast. Our theme music is written and performed by Advent Birmingham of the Cathedral Church of the Advent in Birmingham, Alabama. Our engineer is Rob Willis. Our announcer is Mike Pasquarello. Our co-hosts are Doug Sweeney and, myself, Kristen Padilla. Please subscribe to the Beeson podcast at www.BeesonDivinity.com/podcast or on iTunes.