Beeson Podcast, Episode #618 Emily Andrews, Mike Pasquarello Sept. 6, 2022 >>Announcer: Welcome to the Beeson podcast, coming to you from Beeson Divinity School on the campus of Samford University. Now your hosts, Doug Sweeney and Kristen Padilla. >>Doug Sweeney: Welcome to the Beeson Podcast. I am your host, Doug Sweeney, here with my co-host, Kristen Padilla. We are glad to have you with us. If you’re a regular listener you’ve heard us talk about the Beauty of God conference, taking place on our campus on October 24-25. I am pleased to report that today on the show we’ve invited the conference organizers to spend some time with us and provide us with a sneak peek at the blessings to come. Before we get underway, I want to remind you about our brand new e-newsletter called Happenings. It’s a great place to go to learn about what’s taking place on campus and how you can get involved. We would love to have you with us at some of these events. So, please go to www.BeesonDivinity.com/events to find out more. Some of the events that are featured in the newsletter are sponsored by our Lay Academy of Theology. Our popular Lay Academy classes will begin at the end of this month. If you’d like to go deeper into the bible, church history, and other theological subjects with one of our professors for a six week stretch, visit www.BeesonDivinity.com/layacademy for more information. All right, Kristen, who do we have on the show with us today? >>Kristen Padilla: Today on the show we have two guests in the studio; Dr. Michael Pasquarello, III and Dr. Emily Andrews. Dr. Pasquarello has been a guest on the show before and you might recognize his voice as our podcast announcer each week. He is the Methodist Chair of Divinity and the Director of our Robert Smith Jr Preaching Institute at Beeson. Dr. Emily Andrews is Assistant Professor of Music and Worship and Director of the Center for Worship in the Arts at Samford University’s School of the Arts. This is her first time on the show today. We’re looking forward to introducing you to her. Welcome both of you, Dr. Pasquarello and Dr. Andrews, to the Beeson Podcast. >>Pasquarello: Thank you. >>Andrews: Thank you. >>Kristen Padilla: As I mentioned, Emily, this is your first time on the show and since it is your first time as our guest, I wonder if you would introduce yourself to our listeners and tell us more about your role with Samford’s Center for Worship in the Arts? >>Andrews: Certainly. Well, I direct the Center for Worship in the Arts, as you mentioned. That’s a role that I have come upon fairly recently. So, joined the Center on staff in 2021 at the beginning of the year. Essentially the Center for Worship in the Arts exists to equip congregations to engage intergenerational and artistic worship practices. And sometimes we lean more heavily into the intergenerational side of those practices. Sometimes we’re on the artistic side. Sometimes they blend together really well. But those foci, that is really where we kind of situate our work and our resources and the events that we put on. We recently received additional monies from Lily Endowment for which we are grateful to continue this work in the next few years. >>Doug Sweeney: One of my favorite things about being the Dean of Beeson Divinity School is that my office is right across a sidewalk from the School of the Arts at Samford University. Wilma and I are big fans of the arts. We love to go to concerts and other events that are put on at the School of the Arts. So, it’s fun for me that we’ve got a conference this fall where we’re collaborating a little bit. The Preaching Institute of Beeson Divinity School and the Center for Worship in the Arts of the School of the Arts are doing this thing together. I wonder if you two could tell us just a little bit about what that’s been like? How are we pulling this off in collaboration? Who’s idea was this conference? Who is doing what? >>Andrews: Really, the seed of the idea was really Mike’s and your book. We actually started our work 2019, right, in collaboration and then COVID hit. I know that your book had just recently been published I believe at that point. And so really Mike came to us with kind of the seed that I think stemmed from the book, but was deeper than that as well, and saw that when it comes to thinking about the [inaudible 00:04:31] of God, the arts are not far from that. So, it seems like a natural fit. We really, I would say, had good plans for the conference pretty much fully in place to host it in 2020. Again, because of COVID we kept putting it off a couple of times, actually. And so came back together when protocols were open and available to allow us to collaborate further. I would say since then back in 2021 now for the conference in 2022 tweaked some things, re-thought about guests together, and collaboratively re-thought the schedule, had assistance from folks like Kristen to help us think through the schedule and how to make it the best for the participants and the guests that will be here. I would say from the beginning it’s been a very collaborative process and moments where we’ve sat around the table and kind of dreamed what it could be like to think about a conference that’s focused on preaching, worship, and the arts. All of which I think is just kind of in our wheelhouse collectively. So, delighted to be a part of this collaboration and hope that it’s perhaps something more of that we’ll see in the future. >>Doug Sweeney: Yeah, I hope so, too. Mike, we’re going to ask hard questions about the theology and the practicality of the beauty of God in just a minute. But Emily has referenced your book already. So, tell our listeners about the book. >>Pasquarello: I published a book, “The Beauty of Preaching,” with Eerdman’s. It really was the fruit of a lot of years of not only study but reflection and experience as a preacher. And thinking about, as Emily just said, preaching as an art as well as a craft. Art with reference to beauty and specifically the beauty of God. The Triune God. Because preaching is a theological discipline. We speak of God. If it’s Christian preaching. What caused me to think about this even more is that we preachers are always looking for things that will hook people and draw them in. And that tends to be done through illustrations and stories, sometimes video clips. But what I found is very little preaching lifts up God and invites the congregation to behold God’s beauty which is expression of his glory in Jesus Christ and in the world. As we all now, beauty is attractive. And it’s delightful. And it’s enjoyable. So, it seemed very natural then to partner with Emily and the Center for Worship in the Arts. I think because we share so much in common. >>Kristen Padilla: I wonder if you can give a sales pitch, so to speak, of this conference? Who is it for? What is it about specifically? And then what can guests anticipate or expect when they come to this conference? >>Pasquarello: Well, what we’ve envisioned is a conference that would have a wide audience of folks in ministry ordained and lay. Those who are worship leaders, those who are church musicians, pastors who are preachers, and artists, and lay folks who are involved and very interested in the worship of the Church and contribute to it in very important ways. And it was important to bring artists into this because it would help for churches and pastors to better understand the place and the role of artists in the church – and how they contribute to the church’s ministry. >>Kristen Padilla: How would you add to that, Dr. Andrews? >>Andrews: Not necessarily something to add, but just something to highlight. I do hope that our artists will feel invited. Particularly artists who are interested in the life, worship, and ministry of the Church. Because we do have guest speakers and guest presenters coming who are artists in their own right. And I do think that it’s important for the Church today to engage, re-think, re-vision how the arts can be, broadly speaking ... especially arts beyond music, because music tends to be the natural kind of artistic homeland for the Church to engage ... but the arts even beyond music to help us consider how worship can be renewed in our own context. And then as Mike has already eluded, how we can better behold the beauty of God through these media. >>Doug Sweeney: I wonder if we could get you to talk just a little bit for us about what difference the way we think about the beauty of God should make for every day Christians in the way they live out their faith day to day in the ways in which they worship God. I mean, on the one hand, around this table we’re already sold on this. I think theologians and artists will think this is a really great idea. But what about just sort of regular people in the pews who think kind of practically about living out their faith day by day? How would you want to challenge them to think more or to think better about the beauty of God for Christian living? And maybe Emily we can start with you. >>Andrews: Yeah, I don’t have the quote before me, or the person of the quote, but I’m thinking of a book where essentially the first sentence is “[inaudible 00:09:51] is back,” and kind of talking about how we as humans especially in the 21st century and what some have described as an increasingly post modern, perhaps post truth, context in the way in which we are increasingly sensitive to aesthetics in our lives. And how those sensitivities, especially that which is sensed and felt and experienced, that really shapes us as humans and kind of shapes our own life and world – no matter where we are coming ... we may not be theologians and artists ... So, no matter where we are coming from, those kinds of sensitivities are especially what is shaping kind of our life world today. And so that’s where ... I realize I’m speaking pretty abstractly still but I think that’s where we might be able to engage to the person in the pew or especially the person who is coming from a non professional theological and artistic discipline. And even worship leaders to some extent who ... again, that might seem natural but I know the kind of day in day out work of the worship leader and it can be very much tied to logistics and essentially event planning on a weekly basis. And so even for those folks, helping us ... we capture or attune ourselves anew to the way in which we are inclined, especially today I think to be sensitive to aesthetics in our world and the ways in which that forms our faith so deeply. I’m thinking now of the Jamie Smith and one of this many works where he says, “You can’t think your way to God.” I think that sentiment is connected to this conference and kind of the seeds of this conference. We can’t ultimately think our way to God. There has to be some sort of sensed, or something that we feel is real in order to actually feel connected to God. And so I hope that this conference can help us think about that way of thinking about faith, but also even experience it in the moments of worship gatherings that we’ll have. >>Doug Sweeney: Mike, of course you were a pastor for many years. How would you like to talk about the importance of the beauty of God for people in the pews in our churches? >>Pasquarello: I think all of our listeners or probably most of our listeners would agree that when we talk about Christian living the life that we live by faith in Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit is intended to ... God’s intention is that we reflect or bear the image of God. And that is our unique calling as human creatures. We’re made in the image of God. Of course the fullness of the divine image is revealed to us in Jesus Christ. So, to be fully conformed to him is the process or the pattern or the way that follows conversion that we call sanctification and holiness. So that the more we become like Christ and the holier that we are by sharing God’s holiness, which is a gift to us, then the more we should forth the beauty of God holiness and the kind of people we are, and the way we live our lives, the manner in which we act. And why that’s important I think for lay folks is to recognize in our great desire to see more people get involved in the church that ultimately what matters is that they are attracted to the God who we worship and who is a holy God and a beautiful God. And each of us is called to participate in his holiness, which takes the shape of Jesus Christ crucified and risen. >>Kristen Padilla: Mike and Emily, I know that you have lined up some great speakers at this conference. I wonder if you can tell us who these people are who are coming to lead the conference and a little bit about the schedule. I know that there are worship services and TED Talks and just it’s full of amazing things that you’ve lined up. Can you tell us about the speakers and the schedule and we’ll start with you, Mike. >>Pasquarello: I think it’s a great schedule because it offers a variety of opportunities that we hope will address the questions and the needs that our participants bring. And it’s a schedule that keeps moving, which I think is important in a conference. There’s nothing in it that’s long and drawn out. And it also offers good opportunities for participants to actually engage with both our speakers and the artists who will be performing in the conference. Let me speak for the preaching side. Preaching for our opening service of worship on Monday evening the 24th is Dr. Tyshawn Gardner who is now a member of the Samford University faculty, a long time pastor in an African American church in Tuscaloosa. A great preacher. A protégé of Dr. Robert Smith. And one who in his work has really dealt with beauty in preaching in the life of the Church. He’ll also be offering a workshop, a break out session, and then participating on a panel discussion. Deborah Dean Murphy is a fine, fine theologian who has written about the beauty of holiness, both God’s beauty and the beauty of God’s people as we grow and increasingly grow in our love for God and neighbor. And she’s a really fine speaker and she’s very thoughtful and cares deeply about the ministry of the Church. So, I think that what she will do in presenting a homily as well as a break out session will be very helpful. >>Andrews: I would say again what Mike has already eluded to in the schedule is there’s just a lot of different opportunities for participants to plug in. So, yes, we will worship together, we have as you already mentioned these TED Talk kind of fast paced presentations from some of our guests who are experts in their disciplines and fields. And then we have these breakout sessions where essentially there will be small group classes of a sort that will take kind of a more practical turn to whatever the guest is bringing from their particular discipline. So, I’m really excited to see all of those avenues take place in a single essentially 24 hour conference. It is quite fast paced. Some of the guests that we have coming, John Witvliet is the Director of the Calvin Institute of Christian Worship and Professor of Worship Theology Incarnational Ministry at Calvin University in Calvin Theological Seminary is coming. He is one of our plenary speakers. He’ll be giving an opening, at least an opening and a closing session, moderating some panel discussions. One of his many gifts, I would say, is an ability to tie many things together for us. So, I think that he will definitely enrich the conference in the sense of setting the tone at the beginning and helping us think about our conference theme. And then helping us wrap up our learning and our experience together at the end. So, I’m really looking forward to what he has to say and share with us based on the content and theme of our conference. Matt Papa is another guest who is coming. He is a worship leader but also a singer and songwriter and Dove Award nominee. He has become particularly known in the worship songwriting world for writing of new hymns. So, in a modern style, but who have texts that are akin to classic or standard hymn texts in their form at least. Also in kind of the depth of their theological content. So, that’s kind of a niche that he has really carved out for himself, among others, but that’s kind of the world that he sits in. He does a lot of work with the Getty’s. So, if you’re familiar with Keith and Kristen Getty and their Sing conference and their publications and all that they do in the worship songwriting world, he does a lot of work with them. He leads worship at some of their conferences as well. So, we’re delighted to have him with us. Another artist who will be coming is Cliff Duran and he is the worship pastor at First Baptist Church Woodstock in Georgia. Has a long tenure as a noted worship leader, especially in Southern Baptist circles and large congregations that are leading comprehensive music ministries in their own right, which he does at First Baptist Woodstock. But he is also a Dove Award winning artist. He is an arranger, a composer, a producer, and publishes music with a variety of Christian music outlets. So, he also in addition to his worship leadership again does the composing, arranging, but also performs with a group called Over Flow which includes himself, his wife, and then another female vocalist. So, a trio for which he sings and often plays the piano. So, he is a wonderfully gifted musician. Just to again attest to the breadth of his work and in addition to his worship leadership unrelated to the conference, he’s agreed to actually come to talk to our instrumental arranging classes in the division of music because, again, that’s in his wheelhouse. When our theory faculty learned that he was coming as part of this conference they reached out and said, “Please, can you help him get into our classes in music theory and composition because he’s very gifted in that area?” Another one of our guests coming is Kevin Twit who is the RUF Campus Ministry at Belmont University. He also does some adjunct teaching at Belmont. Some listeners may know of him from the Indelible Grace ministry which he actually founded in 1999. So, a long tenure of being connected to that ministry. If you don’t know anything about that ministry, they were early on one of ... at the forefront of renewing older hymn texts in modern musical forms. And so really bringing back in some cases all I can say is some really obscure hymn texts and kind of reviving them with new music. As well as some new text as well that kind of fit into a more standard hymn form. So, that was part of his ministry for many years, but now he is again at Belmont University. Joe Cory is another artist who is coming and he is actually on faculty at Samford. He is a visual artist, professor of visual arts. Beeson, as a part of the conference, has graciously commissioned him to create original artwork for the conference that will be on display as I understand permanently once the conference has concluded. The artwork will stay here. Joe has a heart, though, for thinking about how the visual arts interlace with our faith and with Christian ministry and with worship in particular. He for a number of years has been connected to and is now the actual leader of Christians in the visual arts, which is a professional organization in visual arts. And so has done a lot of work with the congregations, including his own here in town, to help them think about how to incorporate visual arts into the life and ministries of congregations. Again, including his own. Trying to make sure I don’t miss anyone, Daniel Kasin is the other artist and worship leader that I want to make sure everyone is aware that he is coming. He is a wonderfully gifted musician. As I understand, he is around- >>Doug Sweeney: He’s a regular. >>Andrews: Yes, he is a regular in Beeson’s chapel service. Just so talented as a pianist, as a worship leader, as a minister. He is ordained to ministry. So, he also will be the primary worship leader of one of our worship gatherings as part of the conference. >>Doug Sweeney: All right, I’m sold. This sounds like a fantastic conference to me. Emily, how do I sign up? >>Andrews: Sure. The best thing to do if you’re kind of listening and don’t know much about it – Google the “Beauty of God Conference at Samford” and hopefully that should bring you to our event page and there is literally just a click to register here. And so it’s pretty easy peasy. >>Kristen Padilla: We always like to end our shows by hearing what the Lord has been teaching our guests. And I wonder if you each can share just a couple of words of what God has been doing in your life that would be a word of encouragement to our listeners. So, I wonder if we can start with you, Dr. Pasquarello? >>Pasquarello: Yeah, sure, I’d be glad to. I’ve become increasingly aware in the last couple of years of how our primary vocation as Christians, which is to worship God, has been often pulled in different directions by many, many distractions. And I think that effects all of us, given so much of what’s happening in American culture. I think it becomes increasingly difficult to keep our eyes on the Lord first and recognizing that everything else then follows. So, I’ve taken that to heart. That’s something that I’ve been trying to do is just attend to God more carefully and closely. >>Kristen Padilla: Thank you. Dr. Andrews? >>Andrews: What comes to mind first is I guess for several months now I’ve been doing a lot of thinking and reading in the faith and work movement, if that sounds familiar. In this season of my life that has become more important because I am a new mom again, having just had my third child now. And so thinking of ways in which I can honor God and think of God as connected to some of the very mundane parts of my life. The 2:00 AM parts of my life. (laughs) That has become really important. I realize that perhaps God was preparing me for, in many ways, for this season by kind of already thinking about how all of our life can be connected to our faith life. Then as I turn to a new semester, for the first time I’m teaching a general music class for all freshman music majors that I’ll have in my classes this semester. It’s called “Purpose and Professionalism.” It’s kind of this on boarding welcome to the music major course. And so, yeah, I think that I’ll continue to take those thoughts with me, even though that’s not any kind of worship or theology class, hoping to impart to students that all of our lives can be devoted to God. That can be part of our purpose as Christian disciples. >>Doug Sweeney: That’s right. A very good word and a great way to conclude our conversation with Dr. Mike Pasquarello, the Methodist Chair of Divinity and Director of the Robert Smith Jr Preaching Institute here at Beeson Divinity School. And Dr. Emily Andrews who serves as Assistant Professor of Music and Worship and Director of the Center for Worship in the Arts at Samford School of the Arts. We are very grateful to them for organizing a wonderful conference on the Beauty of God. Please sign up. We’d love to have you. We’re grateful to them for being with us on the show today. And to our listeners, as always, we say thank you for being with us. We are praying for you. We ask you to pray for us and our students. We say goodbye for now. >>Kristen Padilla: You’ve been listening to the Beeson podcast. Our theme music is written and performed by Advent Birmingham of the Cathedral Church of the Advent in Birmingham, Alabama. Our engineer is Rob Willis. Our announcer is Mike Pasquarello. Our co-hosts are Doug Sweeney and, myself, Kristen Padilla. Please subscribe to the Beeson podcast at www.BeesonDivinity.com/podcast or on iTunes.