Beeson Podcast, Episode #598 Gordon Bals April 19, 2022 >>Announcer: Welcome to the Beeson podcast, coming to you from Beeson Divinity School on the campus of Samford University. Now your hosts, Doug Sweeney and Kristen Padilla. >>Doug Sweeney: Welcome to the Beeson Podcast. I’m your host, Doug Sweeney, and I am here as usual with my co-host, Kristen Padilla. Today we have one of our adjunct professors on the show to discuss a new book that he’s just published called, “Grace from Head to Heart: Experiencing God’s Kindness in a Fallen World.” Kristen, who is the author of this book? >>Kristen Padilla: We have on the show today Gordon Bals. He is the Founder/Director of Daymark Pastoral Counseling right here in Birmingham. And he has served as an adjunct professor here at Beeson Divinity School for a number of years teaching courses in Pastoral Counseling and Marriage and Family Counseling. I hear, Doug, is one of the favorites among our students. They just love his classes. >>Doug Sweeney: Definitely. >>Kristen Padilla: So, we are glad to have you in the studio as our podcast guest today. Welcome. >>Gordon: Well, thanks. I’m glad to be here and be with you all. >>Kristen Padilla: We always like to begin with a more personal introduction. So, I wonder if you can introduce yourself to our listeners and tell us more about where you are from? Your family, your background? >>Gordon: Yeah. I’m originally from the Jersey Shore. I grew up less than a mile from the Atlantic ocean. It’s the New Jersey a lot of people don’t know about. I love the ocean and the water, having grown up there. And then spent three years in Colorado doing my masters degree and have been in Alabama since 1995. And that’s partly because my wife, Dawn, we’ve been married over 31 years, her family is from Alabama. So, we looked close to New Jersey or here and settled here. I came to be on a church staff. And then we have three daughters. Our oldest is marrying a Beeson graduate in May. Our oldest is Amy. Our middle is Abigail, 25. And our youngest is Elise, 22. >>Doug Sweeney: Dr. Bals, how did you become a counselor? How did you first sense that God was leading you into counseling ministry? >>Gordon: I reluctantly became a counselor. As I said, I came to Birmingham to be on staff at a church and after about a year and a half I had to go part time at the church. Now, my degree was in counseling but long range I thought I would be a pastor. And part of that was because I was in a more kind of conservative denomination and mindset where counseling was kind of looked at as Freudian, so to speak, and so I really thought my pathway towards helping people was being a pastor. So, that’s why I came to Birmingham. I thought the church will grow and maybe I’ll become discipleship pastor, maybe I’ll go to Beeson and get an MDIV, and be a senior pastor one day. Well, the church had financial problems after I was there about a year and a half. We had just bought a house about three months prior and had our second child a month prior. And so we didn’t feel ready to move and felt kind of called to stay at the church and see it through some things. And I was like, “I’ve got half a salary, an office, and health insurance. I may have some counseling gifts.” And so that’s why I actually started Daymark. And it kind of took off. And then probably other things we’ll be talking about, but I really didn’t have confidence in my gifts and really financially I wanted the church to take care of me. So, it was kind of scary. And what I say is that the Lord pushed me in a direction that I was too afraid to go in, but it was kind of an easy choice because I needed half a salary. >>Kristen Padilla: Well, tell us more about Daymark. You mentioned that you founded it. When did you found it and how has it grown? Tell us about the various services that you all offer. >>Gordon: Yeah. Well, Daymark was a nonprofit I started and so I did it part time for about five years. I mean, some of the essentials about Daymark – one thing we do is a sliding scale. Partly that’s because we really believe it’s an avenue to preach the gospel and we don’t feel like the gospel should be offered at the best price. We really don’t want money to get in the way of people getting the counseling they need. But in addition, the other thing about Daymark is we really sense our calling is to support the church. And so because we raise funds we can come alongside churches and do trainings and preach and do things, where often they’ll give us a stipend but especially something like a training we’ll put a lot more energy into. And that’s really how I grew Daymark was meeting pastors and developing relationships with them. We’re just a big part of a lot of churches in town because we care about the church. So, I think that’s somewhat unique about Daymark. Then there’s three male counselors: Myself, Bill White, and Eric Venable who is a Beeson graduate. And then two women: Betty Carter and Sara Atwell. We do a variety of things: marital, pre-marital, depression ... Eric has got a pastoral certificate in sexual addiction so he will do some of that. I do a lot of grief and loss and trauma. So, a variety of things. >>Doug Sweeney: As Kristen said at the top of the show, Gordon, you’ve been teaching at Beeson for a long time and we are deeply grateful to you for your teaching ministry here. Why have you committed so much of your time to ministry here at Beeson? You don’t have to do it. She mentioned your courses get rave reviews. I read all of our course evaluations carefully. I can testify, they get phenomenal reviews. Students love you. So, I guess that’s one good reason to keep doing it. But there must be more to it than that for you. What’s so important about this for you? And what do you want to say about the importance of learning a little bit about counseling in an MDIV program? >>Gordon: I mean, I think the importance is just whatever gifts God has given me and I’ve been able to cultivate, to be able to pass that on to students who are going to have impact for decades beyond my ministry. Obviously, it’s a beautiful thing and a beautiful way to offer my gifts. But even more than that – the students here, they’ve come to study theology and what I love about Beeson students is they’re really doing theology which is ... I think of where it says knowledge puffs up but love edifies. And if anyone thinks he knows anything he doesn’t really know it as he ought to know it. But if he loves God he’s known by Him. I mean, our students are getting to know God in the process of their education. I just can’t think of anything more I would rather do than to watch students in that process and to come alongside them and watch their formation. I mean, people will ask me about ... I talk a lot about how much I enjoy it, so a lot of people outside of Beeson will ask me and I’m kind of ... what’s not to enjoy? And I have students who are serious about God’s Word and getting to know him. And after class they’ll come up with tears thanking me for the class. I mean, what’s not to like about it? I think your second question was kind of why pastoral counseling in an MDIV? >>Doug Sweeney: Yeah, why is that so important in the forming of pastors? >>Gordon: Obviously, one big reason is it’s the normal and natural function of Christian community, counseling. So, pastors are going to end up doing a lot of it. And they’re going to be surprised because they think they’re going for a coffee to catch up with someone and the person says their spouse had an affair or something. They’re having to be ready in season and out of season to preach the gospel in a setting like that. So, a big reason would be a pastor is just going to do a lot of it, especially in our culture. But I think even maybe a bigger reason in our present culture is the therapeutic is kind of being absorbed into our churches. And that’s not all bad by any stretch of the imagination. But I think why the therapeutic holds such a power is because it’s explaining what happens on the inside. And really as theologians, pastoral counselors, we really ... And not that there’s any expert on what’s happening on the inside, but that’s what we should be about. We’re to preach the gospel to our soul, our heart, and that’s what produces our behavior. So, people are getting that explained outside of the church and sometimes in a way with assumptions that are really not helpful. So, I think for pastors to be kind of fluent in the therapeutic but connected to the historic church and theology in a way that they can really articulate it and make sense of what’s going on inside of a person that resonates with the larger gospel story, I mean, for students to be able to do that what more would we want them to do in our present culture? Because counseling, trauma, all those types of things, I mean, that is the buzz word today for many of the Millennials and probably the future Church. >>Kristen Padilla: Doug mentioned at the top of the show that we wanted to talk to you about the brand new book that you’ve written. And I have it right here next to me. It’s called, “Grace From Head to Heart: Experiencing God’s Kindness in a Fallen World.” And you can get it on Amazon. Google it, you’ll find it. But we want to ask you about what led you to write this book? So, why did you write this book? Why now? And who have you written it for? I’ll kind of say two reasons and then work backwards and kind of explain. One simple reason is I think the clear teaching in the New Testament is that trials and afflictions are really our greatest gift. It’s what CS Lewis calls a divine humility. That we see God because we’re in trouble it’s no credit to him, but even that he accepts. I think because of a fleshly nature that we often don’t realize we’re fighting. We don’t naturally choose God the way we want to. And trials and afflictions awaken us. So, one big reason would be to help the church understand kind of God’s heart behind that. And part of what I say is ... Well, this would be the second reason. I’m getting into why ... The second reason would be I just don’t think we do well in our church with talking about accepting trials and letting them work on us. I mean, think of passages like ... don’t be surprised that you find yourself in this fiery ordeal as if something strange is happening to you. Or I Peter 4, when you become willing to suffer with Christ you’ve decided to stop sinning and you won’t spend the rest of your life chasing after evil desires but you’ll be anxious to do God’s will. I mean, just accepting that we’re in a fallen world and there’s going to be difficulty. Not because we’ve done something wrong. Oftentimes I might work with a young married couple that’s done something really beautiful and now they have trials they weren’t ready for. But they think, “What happened?” And I’m like, “No, your marriage has revealed things that are in there and now you have to lean into that and let God work.” So, the two big reasons where I think it’s a clear New Testament teaching. And I don’t think we teach it well in our churches. So, my hope that the book would kind of produce is a better language around suffering well. I talk about things like groaning and grieving and lamenting. They’re not popular things, but they’re very Christian things. And I kind of say in the beginning of the book, I really want to help people develop more of a language and a fluency with how do we suffer well in a way that the gospel is being formed in us? >>Doug Sweeney: Gordon, you begin this book with a story of a personal tragedy that then leads you into the themes of the book. Would you mind sharing just a little bit about that with our listeners and telling them what it has to do with what you’re doing in the book? >>Gordon: I talk about a huge tragedy in my life. It was my youngest brother who died by suicide. And what I talk about is how I was grieving in many ways richly and painfully. There was full grief in the aftermath of his loss. It brought a lot of things to the surface. And it was months after he had died a friend of mine just asked me how I was doing in regards to that. And as we dialogued about it I think he asked a question something like, “What has surprised you?” So, I had to reflect and I thought the biggest surprise has been that this loss, even though it was much more tragic than the miscarriage 17 years ago that my wife and I experienced that was the first loss I actually grieved I think in a biblical way. And this loss was actually easier, even though it was way more painful. And it was because I hadn’t developed any muscles to grieve. I hadn’t practiced that. I hadn’t been invited into it. I hadn’t experienced it. And 17 years of practice in many ways becoming softer in my heart and more responsive to God’s grace, after 17 years of practice I was able to receive God’s grace as I grieved. And so I was able, and I say kind of in the book, like Jesus, to have sorrow where I was still caring for people. Because God’s grace was giving me a buoyancy that I didn’t have 17 years earlier. So, I kind of used the story to kind of bring people into an illustration of as we live into God’s grace it gives us buoyancy to be more like Jesus and be in a fallen world where it’s not pushing us into a funk or into ourselves and we’re actually able to care similar to the way Jesus did. >>Kristen Padilla: I love the way in which you structure the book. Every chapter has something to do with our hearts. Developing the receptive heart, reviving a hungry heart, maintaining a vulnerable heart, and so on. You use grace a lot in the book and even just in this conversation. What would you like our listeners to know about the grace of God, the kindness of God? What is the grace of God as you expound on it in your book? >>Gordon: Certainly 100 pages isn’t enough to do justice. And whatever I’m going to say here – his grace is just so much larger than we can even talk about. So, if I was going to reduce it down and make it simple it would be this – that oftentimes living into God’s grace is really awkward. And I’ll just use an example. Probably the most awkward time where I grew into God’s grace was when I began dating my wife. Now, prior to meeting her I had not dated for about seven years and they were the first seven years I lived as a believer. And I would have said I wasn’t dating because I was serious about God. What I didn’t realize was I was really afraid of women and relationships. Because the way I had lived as a non believer was really to protect my heart. And I made an idol of myself and turned into myself. And so actually falling in love with my wife and turning outward and being open to the grace and the gift she was ... it says this in the scripture that all those who trust in idols will be put to shame. So, I was not feeling ashamed because I had never opened my heart to anyone. So, now I’m opening my heart and I feel shame. And I would feel guilty staying up at three in the morning talking to her because normally I’m in bed ready to work hard the next day. It was really, really awkward for me to welcome, but it’s become the greatest gift of grace in my life, which is simply my wife. So, I think there are so many situations where as believers we’re shutting down and we’re listening to condemnation that doesn’t come from God, and we’re not staying in the awkwardness and really exercising muscles that would help us grow into a softer and stronger heart when we could more regularly receive God’s grace. So, the simple way to say that is I think we have to learn how to endure awkwardness that really helps us grow into God’s grace. >>Doug Sweeney: That is surprisingly profoundly true. Thank you for that. Well, Gordon, you may know Kristen and I like to end our interviews with people by asking them what’s going on these days in their lives and more particularly asking them what God is teaching them these days? May we ask that of you? Is there something that the Lord is doing in your life these days that you might offer up just as a way of edifying our listeners? >>Gordon: Maybe what we’re doing today is a good picture of what the Lord has been showing me, because we’re talking about a book I published at Beeson Divinity and I can remember 30 years ago even thinking about going to Beeson Divinity and having great respect for this school. I’m in the last probably quarter of my vocational life. And I’m just seeing how much endurance matters. The first day I drove on here as an adjunct I did a couple extra laps because I never thought it was going to happen. And I just was like, I want to enjoy having endured. And so I’m just seeing whether it’s vocationally or in my marriage, or just the beauty of my daughter and the man she’s met. Just seeing how much endurance matters. And oftentimes in the church we forget that. We might see it when someone turns away or experiences something painful and shuts down. But I’m just, in a more celebratory way, I guess, just experiencing how much endurance matters. And experiencing God’s affirmation in that. >>Doug Sweeney: That’s a great word. Listeners, this has been Dr. Gordon Bals. He’s the Founder/Director of Daymark Pastoral Counseling here in Birmingham, Alabama. And a regular professor here at Beeson Divinity School. We’re grateful to you, Gordon, for being with us. Thank you, listeners, for tuning in. We say goodbye for now. >>Kristen Padilla: You’ve been listening to the Beeson podcast. Our theme music is written and performed by Advent Birmingham of the Cathedral Church of the Advent in Birmingham, Alabama. Our engineer is Rob Willis. Our announcer is Mike Pasquarello. Our co-hosts are Doug Sweeney and, myself, Kristen Padilla. Please subscribe to the Beeson podcast at www.BeesonDivinity.com/podcast or on iTunes.