Beeson Podcast, Episode #594 Pastor Vitaliy Bak March 22, 2022 >>Announcer: Welcome to the Beeson podcast, coming to you from Beeson Divinity School on the campus of Samford University. Now your hosts, Doug Sweeney and Kristen Padilla. >>Doug Sweeney: Welcome to the Beeson Podcast. I’m your host, Doug Sweeney, here with my co-host, Kristen Padilla. A few weeks ago we released a special podcast episode with Beeson alumnus Oleg Turlac to discuss the war on Ukraine and how Christians can pray for brothers and sisters there. Today, we want to have another conversation about what’s going on in the Ukraine and the surrounding region in Slavic territory in southeastern Europe. And we have another Beeson alumnus on the program with us today. We’re very grateful for his time. Kristen, would you please introduce him to us? >>Kristen Padilla: Today on the show we have Vitaliy Bak. Vitaliy is a graduate of Beeson Divinity School, having earned his MDIV degree in 2003. He is pastor of Bethany Slavic Baptist Church in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Welcome, Pastor Bak, to the Beeson Podcast. >>Bak: Hello. It’s great to be with you. >>Kristen Padilla: Well, we’re so grateful for your time and so glad that you’re with us. We like to begin always by learning more about our podcast guest and so I wonder if you can tell us more personal things about yourself? Where you’re from? And specifically what your connection is to Ukraine and Russia? And what brought you to the United States and eventually to Beeson Divinity School? >>Bak: My name is Vitaliy Bak. I was born and raised in the former USSR. This country does not exist anymore. The Soviet Union collapsed in December of 1991. The Soviet Union or the USSR was a union of 15 different republics all of which at some point had been independent and have their own ethnic and cultural heritage. The USSR inherited most of these lands and peoples from the old Russian empire. I grew up in the smallest of these republics, the Republic of Moldova or Moldavia, as we used to say back in the day. Moldavia is an independent country today, but it has a lot of challenges. And economy is one of the most significant challenges for the country. Ukraine is the next door neighbor to Moldova and there are many Ukrainians who live in Moldova. And Moldovans who live in Ukraine. My father is Ukrainian and I identify myself Ukrainian in my old Soviet passport. In 1999 my family decided to immigrate to the United States and I came with them. Before arriving to the States I have earned my bachelor of theology degree from Odessa Theological Seminary in Odessa, Ukraine. And after graduation from that seminary I studied for about a year and a half studying theology on the masters level at Tyndale Theological Seminary in Amsterdam, the Netherlands. When I came to the United States I was looking for the opportunity to complete my masters degree in theology. I visited many seminaries. We came to Minnesota right away because we had some relatives. So, when we immigrated here we ended up staying in Minnesota, the Minneapolis area. I came to many, many different schools and seminaries. Went to Bethel here in St. Paul. Went to Trinity Divinity. Went to some other schools. So, actually visited and I mean like really local, went there, physically. More than seven schools I went there. I actually wanted to be recognized from my previous studies. I wanted to see how that could be done. So, when I came to Beeson I got the warmest acceptance. A really warm welcome. And a promise that if I do well in the school they will look at my progress and they will award me the credits for the classes that I have done previously. So, that’s how I ended up in Beeson. We arrived in July of 2001. And in May of 2003 I graduated from the School of Divinity with my master of divinity. >>Doug Sweeney: Pastor Bak, we’re hoping you can tell our audience about the people of your church, Bethany Slavic Baptist Church in Minneapolis. What different ethnic groups are represented in your congregation? How are some of your people connected to folks who are suffering amidst the war in the Ukraine? And what are you hearing from them about what’s going on these days? >>Bak: Well, our church has a variety, a number of people actually, from the former USSR. So, we have people from Moldova. We have people from Russia. We have people from Ukraine. We have people even from the Baltic states. We have people from Belorussia. So, I think the majority of people in our particular case is people from Moldova. It doesn’t mean that they’re ethnically Romanian or Moldovan. A lot of them still even coming from Moldova they have some different ethnic backgrounds, meaning that they are Russian speaking people primarily, and that means that they could have ethnic origin of Ukrainians or some other people. Yet our main desire is to be not necessarily culture or ethnically identified by but we have a new identification: we are children of God. And we love each other. We are concerned for each other. So, in spite of the fact that we may have different backgrounds ... and we have about seven different groups that are represented in different ethnicities and that kind of stuff. But for all of our people actually it’s a tragedy. And a lot of times people refer in their prayers and in their conversations, they refer to this war to this tragedy as brother against brother war. As something like this. So, for us it’s a big tragedy. Some people have relatives in Ukraine. Some people were sharing with me a couple of days ago. A lady shared that her brother’s house was destroyed by a shell. And some other people say that they haven’t heard from the family for some time and they don’t know what’s going on and how things are going. And they are concerned about that. So, definitely, there’s a lot of unknown. But also there’s this somewhat fear of what is happening and how it’s going to affect everybody and that kind of situation. >>Kristen Padilla: We’ve had many conversations over the past couple of years on the podcast with pastors who have talked about what it’s like to pastor during a pandemic. And not only, I’m sure, you could share your own stories, but now you’re pastoring a congregation that has relations and friendships and family members who you just said are being affected by this war. This is personal, more so probably for your church than many of our churches. What have you learned about pastoring during a time of conflict? What has pastoral ministry looked like for you? And how are you shepherding your people at this time? >>Bak: Well, pastoral ministry in this time is I guess like in some other challenges and some other troubles sometimes. This is challenging in a way, but it’s also not unlike some other things. So, let me put it this way. There are many different crises that happen all the time. So, in some ways it is challenging and it is unique but it’s also similar to many other difficulties. So, for example, people are facing or people are battling let’s say cancer or some other terrible disease, or something like that. What does a pastor do? They actually pray with people, they support the people, they remind the people what does the Word of God say about this particular case or this particular issue? Where do we find hope? This is what we do now. So, we remember what hope is. We remember that hope is not in politics. Our hope is not in Washington. Our hope is not in Moscow or Kiev or any other place. Our hope is in Christ. And that is something that we try to remind people that we serve Christ who is risen, who is alive. >>Doug Sweeney: I hate to ask this question, Pastor Bak, because I perish the thought, but a lot of people are wondering what if the Russians win this war and colonize the Ukraine? What will life be like particularly for Christians there? I wonder, is this something that you and your people have thought a little bit about? What should we be ready for? And how can we be ready to care for brothers and sisters in the Ukraine if the worst happens? >>Bak: Well, yes. It’s a very difficult question on one hand. On the other hand we know what it’s like to be under a totalitarian regime. I grew up during that time. So, for me, I know what it feels like and I know many of our brothers and sisters around the world are going through this time. So, I think about Christians, especially underground churches in China, I think about some other people who actually go through much worse situations now, at least. So, in that case, I think that again we shouldn’t lose hope. Now, we don’t know who will win this war. And I think that in some ways Russia actually is somewhat surprised with the resistance of the Ukrainians and what is happening in Ukraine. I don’t know really what they think because they don’t tell me what they think. But I do believe that they probably wanted for something quicker or something less painful. But what we see now, it’s a little bit more challenging, even for them. As Christians we actually ... I think that in some ways God will help us to ... and I do mean this. I do have firm hope that God will help no matter what. God will help us to go through various tribulations and various challenges. Now, is it going to be difficult? I don’t think so because in Russia we have seen about the last ten years the situation in Russia is getting worse and worse in terms of totalitarianism. It’s becoming more center related, meaning the center is in Moscow and power is centralized in Moscow and that type of situation. Evangelical Christians are going through some ever increasing persecutions. Well, it’s probably not persecution as we would say the persecutions but a lot of administrative challenges and life becomes more difficult for believers in Russia. We do have people, friends, and acquaintances and different people who do various types of ministries in Russia. And life is more difficult for them because they are not Eastern Orthodox and makes it challenging. Now, if let’s say it comes to the worst, now I don’t think it’s going to happen but if it comes to the worst and if Russia does colonize Ukraine ... now, it depends what they are planning to do. Now if they are planning to play it real tough and become real cruel task masters they can try to squelch all the religious independence and all of that. But I don’t see that being wise. I don’t think that will be something that they should do. As a matter of fact, they can learn from some of the greatest world conquerors like Alexander the Great and some other ones who actually allowed people to practice their religion. But of course I don’t know. In Ukraine the situation is different than in Russia because Ukraine is much more diverse. Ukraine has a lot larger evangelical protestant population. In Ukraine, in addition to Eastern Orthodox churches there are churches of Catholic persuasion, there are churches of many, many, many various groups of believers and it has a very active evangelical population. As a matter of fact, together with Moldova the largest number of missionaries in the former USSR are from Moldova and Ukraine. Even in Russian cities, even in Siberia, and in some other places. So, what makes this war a sad reality is the fact that the longer the war goes on, the more difficult it will be for people to serve. People are people. People are affected by propaganda, let’s put it this way. And if you are told long enough that Ukrainians are enemies then if Ukrainian will be witnessing about Jesus people may have a hard time accepting that. That’s what I’m saying. >>Kristen Padilla: Those listening, Pastor Bak, I would imagine are thinking about how to pray. So, what are some specific ways that our listeners can and should be praying for this war, Christians, people living in Ukraine? >>Bak: Well, first of course, I think that Christians should pray for this war to end. Pray that God will stop this war. That God will give enough sense to those who are responsible for this and to end the war. And of course to end deaths that are associated with the war. I think that we need to pray to God for peace. I also would like to ask to pray for Christians; that Christians would put Christ and his gospel above personal hurts and hatred. So that Christians use any opportunity to spread the gospel. When the hard time arrives it is the best opportunity for the gospel of Christ to shine in the dark places. Because the gospel carries light, it carries life, hope, and love. We speak and witness about the risen Lord. So, we need to pray for believers in Christ to become the beacons of hope and resurrection at the time of death and destruction. We need to pray for those people not to lose hope. And for them to keep the faith. Because I’m sure that at this point you heard it more than three million people on the run, basically, from the country. And that means that families are separated. The men are staying behind and women and children are leaving the country and all of that. And that’s a tragedy. It’s terrible. So, for them in the midst of this chaos and in the midst of this heartbreaking situation, for them to still keep the hope. I think it’s really important. I think also we need to pray for those who are suffering, who are poor, who are on the run. Really. And pray that God will help them, not only to have their needs met, but also for them to see hope and maybe to meet some Christians who will actually help them to find Christ if they don’t know Christ. >>Doug Sweeney: Are there any other ways, Vitaliy, in which Christians here in North America can be helping brothers and sisters in the Ukraine? There are a lot of people listening to this who probably would like to be of help but don’t really know what to do. Do you have any advice for them? >>Bak: Well, again, first is pray. And for me prayer is not just a by word or some kind of word that becomes like a stamp. No. I think that there’s power in prayer of the saints. Second, you can help even financially. But at the same time I would like to suggest to be careful when you are thinking about helping financially because in times of war, in times like this, there are many people who actually can come up with all sorts of schemes and frauds and different other circumstances. So, make sure that if you want to participate financially do that through some reputable charities and mission groups. You can try doing it through your denominations, your churches, and that probably would be the wisest thing to do. Because I hope that they check who they are working with. As far as transferring money to Ukraine, it’s challenging because not all banks are working and you already have some difficult situations right there. I know at least two mission organizations that work closely with Ukraine and Russia. As a matter of fact, they have been doing this work for a long time. So, they’ve been working for years there. They know many churches. So, one of them is Mission Eurasia. You can find them on the website, www.missioneurasia.org. And there’s another one, it’s called Bible Mission. As a matter of fact, they have offices in Germany, they have offices in America, and they can provide a lot of help even through Europe. So, it’s www.biblemission.us. So, you can actually read some information there about what they do. You can help them. They provide food. They provide food packages for people. They try to organize some shelters and many other situations. Now, from our church there are two people right now who went to Poland. And they’re meeting the refugees and trying to work with them. One specifically tried to witness to the refugees who are coming there. Tried to speak about Christ. And another went specifically to help with orphans. We have participated with another local church here in Minneapolis. We have participated in a couple of projects that they visited a lot of orphanages in Ukraine and they were even bringing orphans here to America for summer vacation, for some other time. Now, all of those orphanages are evacuated to Poland. So, they are trying to locate those orphans and see how they can situate them and help them and provide some support and that kind of stuff. So, that’s, of course, a lot of challenges because people are scattered right now. So, again, pray. If you choose to participate financially do it wisely. >>Kristen Padilla: Thank you so much for being on the show to talk with us about something that is so difficult that’s going on in the world right now. I also want to encourage our listeners to pray for you and your ministry and your church and your people, too, at this time. We always like to end by asking our podcast guests what the Lord is teaching them these days. And so I wonder if you can close us out by sharing what the Lord has been teaching you recently? >>Bak: Well, two things. Now, this war, this situation in particular, has a lot of propaganda. There’s a lot of misleading information. And it reminds me that words are very powerful. Words can ignite a huge fire of hatred and bitterness. There’s a passage in the Book of James, in the letter of James, 3:6. “The tongue is a fire. A world of iniquity. The tongue is so set among our members that it defiles the whole body. It sets on fire the course of nature. And it is set on fire by hell.” So, it just reminds me that words can heal or words can hurt. So, it teaches me and reminds me that my words should be chosen wisely. The time will come that I will have to give an account for every single word that I say. So, this is one thing, one lesson. What are my words? Another lesson in light of this whole situation I take from the words of Jesus Christ. Jesus said before his crucifixion in the Gospel of John 16:32-33. “Indeed the hour is coming, yet has now come. That you will be scattered, each to his own, and will leave me alone. And yet I am not alone because the Father is with me. These things I have spoken to you that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But be of good cheer. I have overcome the world.” And I wanted to remind all listeners that Jesus Christ has risen from the dead. There’s a good hymn that we sing. “I serve the risen Savior.” And actually this is something that I really want to believe. This is something that I want to proclaim. This is something that I want to really cling to. I serve the risen Savior. And as long as we stick to him, as long as we are connected to him, we can do it. Jesus has overcome the world. >>Doug Sweeney: Amen. Let’s be strong, brothers and sisters, as we take up our crosses daily and follow the risen Savior. You have been listening to Vitaliy Bak. He is Senior Pastor of Bethany Slavic Baptist Church in Minneapolis, Minnesota. He’s an alumnus we’re pleased to say of Beeson Divinity School. Thank you, Vitaliy, for being with us today. We’re very grateful for you and your ministry. And we thank all of our listeners for being with us as well. We’re praying for you. Please pray for us and pray for brothers and sisters in the Ukraine. Goodbye for now. >>Kristen Padilla: You’ve been listening to the Beeson podcast. Our theme music is written and performed by Advent Birmingham of the Cathedral Church of the Advent in Birmingham, Alabama. Our engineer is Rob Willis. Our announcer is Mike Pasquarello. Our co-hosts are Doug Sweeney and, myself, Kristen Padilla. Please subscribe to the Beeson podcast at www.BeesonDivinity.com/podcast or on iTunes.