Beeson Podcast, Episode #570 Dallas and Emily Knight Oct. 12, 2021 >>Announcer: Welcome to the Beeson podcast, coming to you from Beeson Divinity School on the campus of Samford University. Now your hosts, Doug Sweeney and Kristen Padilla. >>Doug Sweeney: Welcome to the Beeson Podcast. I’m your host, Doug Sweeney, here with my co-host, Kristen Padilla. Today we’re beginning a new three week series on the experiences of our students and their mentors in cross-cultural ministry over the summer. Beeson requires all of its master of divinity students to engage in what we call their cross-cultural ministry practicum, or CCMP. We plan to tell you all about this during the next few weeks by featuring some of the people who are involved this year. Before Kristen introduces today’s guests, let me invite you to attend our annual Reformation Heritage Lectures at the end of this month, October 26th, 27th, and 28th; with Dr. Michael McClyman, Professor of Modern Christianity at St. Louis University. The theme of this year’s lecture is seeing Christ’s Cross Through a Reformation Lens. They’ll take place each day at 11:00 in Hodges Chapel. No reservations are needed. Just come and be a part of this. You can find out more on our website at www.BeesonDivinity.com/lectures. Now, Kristen, would you please introduce our good friends who will be featured on today’s podcast? >>Kristen Padilla: Thank you, Doug. I will. Welcome, everyone, to the Beeson Podcast. I’m so glad to have some friends of ours on the show – Dallas and Emily Knight. They are a married couple here at Beeson Divinity School; both working on their master of divinity degree. They are both from Georgia and are graduates of Samford University. They have been serving for several years at a local congregation, Shades Valley Community Church, here in Birmingham. Recently, Dallas has accepted a new position at South Highland Presbyterian Church in Birmingham as a Ministry Intern working with the youth among many other ministry hats I’m sure he’s going to wear during his time there. And that church, listeners, is where the senior pastor, Ed Hurley, serves and he’s on our advisory board. We also have two of our alums at that church serving as well, Court and Abby Gatliff. So, it’s a wonderful church. We’re pleased for you, Dallas and Emily. Welcome to the show! >>Dallas Knight: Thanks for having us. >>Emily Knight: Yeah, thanks Kristen and Dr. Sweeney. >>Kristen Padilla: Like I said, we’re glad that you’re here to talk specifically about the CCMP. I’ve already had the pleasure of hearing about that. So, I look forward for our listeners to hear from you. But before we get into talking about the CCMP, I want our listeners to know a little bit more about you. So, could you introduce yourselves to us? Where you’re from, how did you meet, what brought you to Beeson? Anything that you want to share with us? Dallas, how about we start with you? >>Dallas Knight: Yeah, great. So, I’m originally from Albany, Georgia. I was born and raised there. It’s about four and a half hours from Birmingham, down 280. I was born and raised there. In 2014 when I graduated from high school I found my way over to Samford University for undergrad. And then graduated in 2018. I majored in History and Classics at Samford. During that time I met Emily. She started a year before me and we had a lot of different points of connection. We’re both involved at RUF. We shared a major in classics. We were part of the Honors Program at Samford. We just were in a lot of similar circles. Eventually we decided we were friends, we get along, I think we should try this dating thing out. So, my senior year when I realized I wanted to go to seminary I was looking at a lot of different places. But again [inaudible 00:04:23] and I knew Beeson was a great school. I had a lot of friends who had pointed me this direction. Some ministers at churches I was very involved at. I realized not only did I have a lot of ministers I looked up to that came to Beeson, but also I had Emily here still in Birmingham for another year, so I figured it all kind of made sense to stay here and to learn what these ministers have learned. >>Emily Knight: Yeah, clearly we had a lot in common and have been in school together even now for a few years, too. But yeah, I am originally from Macon, Georgia, which is about an hour and a half south of Atlanta. I grew up going to a smaller Christian school studying theology and really just falling in love with the Bible. Didn’t really know what that meant as far as a vocational calling until much later. But came to Samford in 2015 to study English and Classics. I met Dallas along the way and at some point during my senior year, actually after Dallas had started at Beeson, I was getting pretty jealous of his classes. And realizing that the Lord was turning my heart towards theological education but also towards ministry in particular. In many ways it just has been a dream come true to be at Beeson and just realizing the ways the Lord has turned both of us towards ministry from young ages and only just coming to discover what that means for us. Beeson has been such a sweet time of us getting to do Beeson together as a married couple. We actually haven’t taken a class together at Beeson yet, at least, and it’s Dallas’ last semester. So, we may have lost our chance. But we have shared many other things during our time at Beeson and it’s been just the experience of a lifetime. >>Doug Sweeney: Thanks guys. Of course we want to dive in deep in just a minute into your experiences this summer in cross-cultural ministry. But before we do, and since we don’t get to have students on the podcast nearly enough, I thought I’d take advantage of the opportunity and ask you to help me sell Beeson Divinity School just a little bit to some prospective students and friends of the school. Could you each say a couple of words about what you’ve liked best about this place and how God’s used it in your life and whether God has used it to clarify your sense of calling? That sort of thing. And I wonder, maybe Emily you could start first this time? >>Emily Knight: Sure. There are so many different things that I could say to this question. But as I’ve really thought over the last two and a half years at Beeson, what’s been so meaningful for me. I think have been relationships with the faculty members. It’s been mentorship but on steroids in a lot of ways. I’ve really enjoyed being at such a small school, a tight knit community where we really get to know our professors. And not only that but they really get to know us, too. I’ve just come to realize when you know someone really well, and when my professors come to know me really well through having me in multiple classes they’re able to challenge me better, correct me more, and the conversation is just ongoing. There are some professors, like Dr. Gignilliat that I’ve taken for multiple semesters now. Or I’m in Dr. Webster’s mentor group. And just being able to continue the conversation from mentor group to class to lunch and just soak in all of the wisdom and just be able to ask hard questions of people that I know I can trust and who love me and want to see me flourish. That’s really meant a whole lot to me. I think mentor group has been just an extremely encouraging part of Beeson. Not only because of the faculty, but the opportunity to just take a break during the week and reflect and pray has been huge and just to build those relationships with my classmates and to know that we’re not just people who study together, but that we’re praying together. I think it just gives a whole new meaning to the rest of the week because the weeks can get so busy and so to just have a pause to refresh and to reset and to really say what has the Lord done this week? What am I learning? What has been really hard about this week? And then to jump right back in, in an hour, back into class or whatever. That’s been really meaningful. >>Doug Sweeney: Thanks, Emily. What a wonderful testimony. Dallas, she said a lot of it already, but anything you want to add to that? >>Dallas Knight: Yeah, well, I would first second just the impact that the professors have on the students. I mean, for my example, Dr. Fieldman. I’ve been in his mentor group since the beginning. I think I’ve taken every class with him that I could. And just to have that kind of close relationship with one professor, but also knowing I can go to others like Dr. Malysz and others and just be able to talk about anything from personal to theological and vocational has been very impactful for me as I’ve moved through seminary and trying to decide what I want to do – what God is leading me towards. But beyond that I would include the students and the fact that the interdenominational aspect of Beeson and how that connects with student life has been probably the most impactful part of Beeson for me. The friends and the classmates that I’ve had and not only being in study groups and trying to get through Dr. House’s Old Testament exams but also just to be able to dialogue with each other in ways that ... One thing I’ve enjoyed about Beeson has been we’re not here to ... The professors aren’t going to impose their denominational beliefs on you but help you strengthen your own denominational convictions. But to be able to have that similar dialogue with students and just to see, not just how they theologically might differ, but to see what are the core common beliefs of Christian faith and how us as Reformed Presbyterian type of people relating to Anglicans and Methodists and Baptists and just seeing how we all come together to worship and to give glory to God in different yet similar ways. And to just strengthen those friendships so down the road I can reach back to these friends and see how they’re serving God in their context. Beeson has allowed for us to strengthen those relationships in ways that I don’t know if I would have gotten if I had gone to any other seminary. >>Kristen Padilla: I think that’s a nice segue into talking about the cross-cultural ministry practicum, because I know you went with a group of your fellow students here at Beeson and shared such a special experience. As Doug has already said, every MDiv student has to complete a two week required cross-cultural ministry practicum. The two of you decided to do that CCMP in Vermont this summer. So, why did you choose this particular location? And what were you expecting as you went into it? >>Dallas Knight: The main reason I felt compelled to go to Vermont – my father is a minister. He pursued his calling later in life in 2016. Being in small town Georgia in the southwest corner of the state, he was commissioned to two churches in rural Georgia. The congregations were no bigger than 15, 20 members. He served there until this summer. And just being able to see how the Lord impacted him, not just in terms of his own faith but his leadership and calling as a pastor, I just could tell there was something different for him going from our large church to these small rural communities that really impacted him. Since I had been in college and graduated since then I wanted to be able to see more what that was like. He and I had been able to have some good conversations, but I wanted to know in a more intensive manner what that rural ministry would be like. My expectations ... I knew from talking with Jason, the pastor up there, that we would be shadowing him, seeing his congregants and just members of his community, and seeing how he ministered to them. And I mean that’s what happened. That’s what I was expecting, but I don’t think I could have expected just the impact that it’s had on us and just how compelling of a ministry that it is. I could not have expected that. >>Emily Knight: I think for me why we chose Vermont as our CCMP is that so Jason, who is the pastor up in Vermont that we shadowed, is getting a little bit of a reputation around here for just his particular mentorship and even in just the two weeks that we were there, the ways that he was able to offer really specific encouragement of our giftings and feedback on how he sees the Lord calling us. For me, what was really appealing was the opportunity to just get to ask kind of any question about pastoral ministry and his experiences and why he has chosen certain things or what’s been really difficult about his ministry there. Questions that I could ask my pastors here, but just because he’s not our pastor and we’re not necessarily under his care in the same way his congregants are, we were able to ... He was really able to be honest with us in a way that I think was really refreshing and encouraging for us as future ministers to just hear what is it really like? And just to be treated as future ministers I think was really huge for me. It’s been hard in a lot of ways for me to picture myself in ministry in the future for whatever reason. I’m not sure that I’ve had many role models or especially I think female ministers in my life where I’ve been able to see and have that kind of active mentorship in the same way. So, that was just really meaningful for me. I’m not sure, again, that it was something we 100% expected going in, but we had heard from Abby and Court Gatliff and others who had already known Jason, but this is really, I think, his gifting in a lot of ways is mentorship of young ministers in training and it’s something he’s really passionate about. It was just such a wonderful experience for that reason. >>Doug Sweeney: That’s a great segue, Emily. So, tell us more. Let’s get into the weeds of what you actually did this summer. Who is this Jason we keep referring to? Where does he live? What is his ministry context? What did he have you doing together this summer? >>Emily Knight: Sure. Jason McConnell is the pastor of two rural churches in Franklin, Vermont or rather Franklin and East Franklin, which are I would say 10, 15 minutes apart from each other. But these are historic communities. So, while they’re smaller congregations they are distinct. And he pastors both of them. They’re about ... I think East Franklin might be about a mile from the Canadian border, which you may be able to hear both mine and Dallas’ southern accents. So, it was definitely cross-cultural experience for us to be in New England. And these are dairy farming communities. So, while not every single person in the community or in the church is a dairy farmer, as a whole it’s an agricultural community, it’s extremely tight knit. Just kind of a classic rural community in a lot of ways. So, what we did from day to day, we were there for about two weeks. We say that we shadowed him. I think that’s a really good picture of what we were able to do because we basically went with him to meet what felt like everyone in the community. So, there’s about 1,500 people in Franklin. So, we didn’t meet everyone, but we met several dairy farmers and toured their farms and got to ask a lot of questions about their industry and kind of even see the diversity within the dairy farming industry of family-owned farms. Some who are very small and kind of operate in more traditional ways, and then some that are more on the technological end of things. We saw robots milking cows. So, that was really interesting. Dallas comes from farming country as well, but I think it was really refreshing for us to be in that setting, again. And then meeting everyone else in the community from the elementary school principal, to a parole officer for sex offenders, to just a lot of local leaders, legislators, the guy who runs the soup kitchen. We went to an ecumenical pastors meeting where we met with a lot of the different gospel preaching pastors in the county and the elders meeting at the church. And then a little bit of hiking as well on some of the ski slopes. So, it felt like we did almost everything there is to do in Franklin in a lot of ways. And we barely even scratched the surface in other ways. I think I’d be amiss if I didn’t mention the Maple Sugar House as well. We saw how maple syrup is made. And I think that’s maybe ... Maple syrup is very important to Vermonters. We definitely learned that while we were there. We came back with a couple of gallons. >>Doug Sweeney: Dallas, did you and Emily work side by side the whole time you were in Vermont? Or did you do some different things? Was your experience any different from hers? And maybe if you did work side by side, and what you would want to say about this is a lot like what Emily just said, maybe you could add a little something about what the two of you learned about ministry and what the Lord has in mind for you in ministry moving forward? >>Dallas Knight: Yes, Jason kept us together and the whole group. We were able to just follow him every step of the way. Everything that Emily just described was what we all participated in. In terms of ... You asked how its impacted us down the road for ministry? One thing that has really impacted me is he was able to show us a different model of ministry than I think what we tend to see in suburban communities just by virtue of it being a different geographical context. Jason really has a passion for parish ministry and walking among the people and that being the core focus of his ministry. Emily and I have talked a lot about this. I think that has given us a renewed vision to some degree about what we see God leading us towards. As I’ve gone through Beeson and trying to discern what I’m supposed to do for pastoral ministry I was concerned with what I was supposed to be doing because I saw the church ministry in our context and it’s a good method of ministry but it wasn’t lining up with how I saw God gifting me and calling me towards. Just the faster suburban pace. Jason was able to come alongside us and show, “Well, that’s one way to do ministry and God uses it, and it’s good. But that’s not the only way.” There’s this parish mindset of being able to spend time with your members in a more intensive way and being invested in the community in a way that it’s easier to do in a rural context versus maybe in a suburban context. It helped me realize that, “Oh, this might be the direction that God is leading us towards.” This seems to be more in line with our own giftings to be able to ... A more incarnational vision, I guess, is what I would say. >>Kristen Padilla: In line what that, Emily, I wonder if you could talk about ... And you can add on to what Dallas just said, but I wonder if you can talk about in particular your opportunity to preach a sermon, especially before taking preaching class. You’re in your first semester of preaching class at Beeson. But that opportunity and how this particular experience has shaped your own view of your own calling to ministry? >>Emily Knight: Yeah. I did get to preach in a Sunday morning service, which I’m not sure if you’d asked me even when I started at Beeson, “Do you even want to do that?” I probably would not have said, “Yes.” And it was one of the most joyful experiences of my life. I’m really grateful for the opportunity. That was actually the one difference between mine and Dallas’ schedules is Dallas preached at the Senior Living Center and so that was a really sweet experience for him. And I was in the pulpit on Sunday morning at Franklin United Church. Right, I preached the sermon and prepared the sermon before I started preaching this fall or preaching class this fall, and so I was pretty intimidated in some ways. Especially before we even got to Vermont. Of just trying to envision the community that we would be in and, “Lord, what do these people need to hear from your Word?” And I was pretty anxious. Basically until the moment that I opened my mouth and started speaking in the sermon. But, like I said, it was joyful and almost even fun. I would say it definitely was fun for me. I think, like Dallas said, that was really the experience for me that made me kind of open my eyes a little bit to what the Lord could be calling us to, just in terms of I think I’ve had a very small imagination as to what the Lord could use me for. And I think that experience really shifted things for me of saying that I would be open to preaching more and to be in pastoral ministry if that’s what the Lord calls us to. I think the rural context for us in concert with preaching just really fit both of our giftings in a way that we didn’t expect of just the values of rural culture, of kind of family and tradition, and these things were kind of familiar to us from our own upbringing. It was definitely still cross-cultural in other ways for us to talk with the families in the congregation. But at the end of the day we were speaking the same language when it came to the things of the Lord. We were just able to connect over that which we have in common. It was just really encouraging to ... We stayed with host families who are congregants in the churches and so to preach to the families that we were actually staying with and got to know a little bit while we were there, and knew kind of what their family situations were like. One family actually had an accident, a tragedy happen in the middle of the week. One of the Smith ... Taylor was staying with that family, and so her sermon really ministered to their souls in a way that we couldn’t have expected. Because she got to know them while she was staying with them. And so I think the Lord was really kind to show us we didn’t have to be around these people for very long in order for the Lord to use us in those Sunday morning sermons. So, it was just such an encouraging experience I think for each of the ladies, especially, that I talked to who preached in the pulpit. It was the first time for each of us and we couldn’t have asked for just a more affirming experience and honestly Jason and his wife, Jennifer, were extremely affirming, but also really great about giving feedback about the sermon, too. Which I just kind of ate up. I loved hearing, “Okay, what worked, what maybe didn’t fit for this context, what could we think about for next time?” Or, “Jason, if you were preaching this sermon, how would it have been different from your voice?” And kind of this collaboration afterwards of just getting to process what just happened was so valuable. I think preaching was really the stand out experience for me those two weeks. It was maybe one of the highlights of my Beeson experience. >>Doug Sweeney: Dallas and Emily, we always like to conclude these interviews by asking our guests what the Lord has been teaching them recently. And I wonder, in your case, has what the Lord has been teaching you in recent weeks related at all to the cross-cultural ministry experience you had over the summer? Is there anything by way of conclusion that you’d want to commend to our listeners by way of encouraging them in the Lord based on your recent experience of ministers of the gospel? And maybe, Dallas, let’s start with you this time? >>Dallas Knight: One of the things the Lord has really been teaching me recently is definitely impacted by the CCMP. And me taking on this job at South Highland is very much connected with it. The CCMP helped me realize the way in which God is calling me towards pastoral ministry. This parish mindset that Jason really emphasized with us. And so when Abby Gatliff and I started talking about me possibly coming on to South Highland that was the model she was really seeking after as she’s pursuing ministry at South Highland – spending all this time with students and ministering to them. And not so much a programmatic way, but an incarnational, seeking them outside the church, outside of events, and that has really been what God has been ... almost a restlessness in me since Vermont. Realizing that this relational component, this relational way of doing ministry rather is really something God has convicted me of. And showing me that this is where the gifting he has given me and I need to pursue this, I need to seek that out. So, that is really what the Lord has been teaching me is the value of that parish mindset and him just pushing me towards that with this new job. >>Doug Sweeney: How about with you, Emily? How has God been teaching you recently? >>Emily Knight: Yeah, I think our experience in Vermont has really encouraged and refreshed me in such a needed way. In particular, gosh, this has been a hard couple of years for everyone and just talking to so many ministers who are feeling burned out and just weary. I think Jason’s ministry really encouraged us that the faithfulness of God to his ministers, especially to those he’s called, to his people. But especially just to be able to see that resilience in ministry is possible and that when you’re able to really put your roots down and become immersed in people’s lives, and just that rhythms of rest and play are possible within vocational ministry. I think that was really encouraging to see in such a time when burnout has been so common. And not just burn out but just discouragement in ministry that the Lord really does provide times of refreshing and that these kind of rhythms of rest are possible. That’s encouraged me in what can be really busy semesters at Beeson with work and homework and ministry. That it just feels like it can all be converging at once. But that the Lord does invite us to rest in his presence. And that really is possible. It’s not impossible. He doesn’t load us up with all of these burdens but he invites us to rest even as we do his work. >>Doug Sweeney: Amen. That’s a good work, Emily, and a nice way to conclude our interview. Audience members, you have been listening to Beeson students, Emily and Dallas Knight. They had a wonderful experience this summer in their cross-cultural ministry practicum experience in the northern part of the state of Vermont. We are grateful to the Lord for what he taught them this summer and for blessing us with their presence in our community. I don’t know about you, but it’s always an encouragement for me to listen to young students who are called into ministry, testify to God’s work in their lives, and what they’ve been learning about ministry. I think the Church of Jesus Christ is in good hands moving forward and we’re grateful to you, Dallas and Emily, for being with us. Thanks, listeners. We love you. Goodbye for now. >>Kristen Padilla: You’ve been listening to the Beeson podcast. Our theme music is written and performed by Advent Birmingham of the Cathedral Church of the Advent in Birmingham, Alabama. Our engineer is Rob Willis. Our announcer is Mike Pasquarello. Our co-hosts are Doug Sweeney and, myself, Kristen Padilla. Please subscribe to the Beeson podcast at www.BeesonDivinity.com/podcast or on iTunes.