Beeson Podcast, Episode #537 Reverend Dr. Thomas Beavers Feb. 23, 2021 >>Announcer: Welcome to the Beeson podcast, coming to you from Beeson Divinity School on the campus of Samford University. Now your hosts, Doug Sweeney and Kristen Padilla. >>Doug Sweeney: Welcome to the Beeson Podcast. I’m your host, Doug Sweeney, here with my co-host, Kristen Padilla. Today we conclude our African-American Ministry Emphasis Month series with an interview of Dr. Thomas Beavers, a beloved Beeson alumnus and one of the most exciting ministers in Birmingham. Regular listeners will remember that Dr. Beavers appeared on the podcast just last spring for our series on racism and congregational ministry. Today, we want to ask him about his ministry at the New Rising Star Church in Birmingham and beyond. This interview is airing one week after Pastor Beavers preached a sermon in Beeson’s Hodges Chapel. And if you missed that sermon preached on February 16th we invite you to check out our YouTube Channel and watch the video recording at YouTube.com/BeesonDivinity. Kristen, would you mind introducing Dr. Beavers to our audience? >>Kristen Padilla: Yes. Welcome everyone to the podcast. We have the Reverend Dr. Thomas Beavers on the show today. He is Senior Pastor of New Rising Star Church in the Eastlake community of Birmingham. He is a two time alumnus of Beeson, having earned an MDiv degree in 2007 and a DMin degree in 2013. In 2018, Dr. Beavers received a Master of Divinity Distinguished Alumnus award at Beeson, which was very well deserved. So, welcome back to the Beeson Podcast, Dr. Beavers. >>Dr. Beavers: Thank you so much for having me. I’m honored to be here. And to Dean Sweeney, thank you so much. >>Kristen Padilla: Well, as Doug has already said, you were on the show last year for a special series that we hosted. And hopefully all of our listeners listened to that series and are already somewhat familiar with you. But for those who might have missed it, can you give our listeners just a short synopsis into your background? Where are you from, your family, your faith journey? Anything you want to say today. >>Dr. Beavers: Certainly. I’m born and raised in Birmingham, Alabama. I’m a Birmingham native. The only time that I left Birmingham, Alabama was to go to college. I went to Kentucky State University. I grew up on the east side of Birmingham, Alabama up until I was 12 years old. At the age of 12 I moved to the west side of Birmingham, Alabama. I am the grandson of a pastor. Due to the fact that I am a grandson of a pastor I was always in church. I joke with people and I tell them I passed a drug test. My mother literally drug me to church. Going to church was not an option. Every night of the week it was something in church. We were always there. Though I hated it as a child. It really helped to form me and shape me as a Christian and as an adult. As a consequence I came to know the Lord when I was five years old. Nobody coerced me into giving a confession of faith. I simply was at a Wednesday night Bible study prayer service and after my grandfather finished preaching that night I found myself walking down the aisle. I said, “Hey, I know about a man named Jesus. I hear you talk about him every Sunday and every Wednesday. I want to accept Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior. I want him to come into my heart.” And so I was saved at the age of five, got baptized at the age of five, and I continued to grow and matriculate through the church. When I became a teenager I did stray away from the church, but I’ve learned that although you can stray away from the church you can never stray away from God. I was still in church, but I still was not necessarily living the way or taking my faith commitments serious. I re-dedicated my life to Christ when I was 17 and after I re-dedicated my life to Christ at the age of 17, I was called to preach as a senior in high school. I knew that I was called to preach. I had a very, very extremely dramatic experience. I wouldn’t wish that experience on anybody. Through that experience I recognized that God was calling me to preach and after I graduated from high school in May of 2000 I preached my first initial public sermon, July 16th of 2000. After I preached my first initial public sermon I left and I went to college. I went to Kentucky State University from 2000 to 2004. It was there that I developed into a man and there that I even developed as a Christian, even more there that I even developed as a preacher and a faith leader of the gospel even more. Kentucky State had opportunities, such as the Baptist Student Union, which gave me opportunities doing campus service at least once or twice a month to preach on campus in front of the students. And I also attended a church called Mount Calvary Baptist Church in Lexington, Kentucky. My pastor there was Reverend Felix G. Williams III and he gave me so many opportunities as well. I played basketball at Kentucky State University from 2000 to 2004 and had a wonderful time doing that there. Graduated in 2004, came back home to Birmingham, Alabama, really to sit at the feet of my grandfather. I knew the day that I graduated Kentucky State University that I would one day pastor the church that I grew up in. Never discussed it with my grandfather. I just had an unction and heard the voice of the Holy Spirit. So, I came back home, sat at the feet of my grandfather, started as the janitor inside of the church and matriculated through the ranks of the church. Went from the janitor to later becoming the assistant pastor, all the while I was attending Beeson Divinity School in the masters program. I graduated from the masters program in 2007, from Beeson Divinity School, took the three year hiatus, came back in 2010 and started the DMin program the same year that I started as the pastor of New Rising Star Church, affectionately known as “The Star,” and here we are today. >>Doug Sweeney: So, Dr. Beavers, I want to hear more about that call to preach. Maybe if I could pose the question in a bigger way. As a church history teacher I’m also fascinated when pastors take over churches from their fathers or grandfathers. So, could I ask you, what was that call to preach like? And did your grandfather have anything to do with your sense of calling to pastoral ministry? And then one little more add on, what was it like to become the pastor of The Star in the wake of your grandfather who had been the pastor there for so many years? >>Dr. Beavers: So, we can talk about my experience. One day I was coming home from basketball practice from Minor High School right here in Birmingham, Alabama, in the Adamsville community. When I was coming home from practice I lived on a hill. I got halfway up the hill and my music was blasting really, really loud. I had these loud speakers in my truck. And all of a sudden everything got quiet. It’s like I was going in slow motion. I had an out of body experience. My heart started to beat extremely fast and then all of a sudden my heart stopped beating. I literally heard the audible voice of God saying, “I am calling you to preach.” Immediately after that everything just went back to normal. Everything is no longer in slow motion. I could hear music again. Tears started rolling down my eyes. I go home. My mom is not home. Because she’s not home I walked down the street and I told my best friend. When I knocked on the door I was crying. He opened the door and he said, “Why are you crying?” I said, “I’m crying because I just heard God tell me that, ‘I’m calling you to preach.’” And he said, “You didn’t know you were called to preach?” He said, “Everybody knew it except for you. You’re the only one who didn’t know it.” So, then he called his mom and his mom said the same thing. She’s like, “Yeah, we’ve known this for years.” She was like, “You’re the only one who didn’t know it.” And so I went home and I told my mom. My mom told me to call my grandfather. I still did not want to preach. I come from a long line of preachers. My grandfather’s a preacher, my uncle, several of my uncles are preachers, godfathers are preachers, it just runs in the family. So, I never wanted to preach, never envisioned myself preaching. So, I called my grandfather and said, “The Lord told me to preach.” I said, “But grandfather, he did not tell me when.” So, my grandfather kind of chuckled. He laughed. He said, “Okay, well, we’re going to pray together and you just come back to me whenever you hear the Lord tell you when.” So, he prayed with me and immediately after that prayer I literally started trying to run away from God. I started doing things to try to prove to God that you have the wrong person. To try to prove to God that you cannot use anybody like me. I did not know that God does not call people who are qualified, but he qualifies people who are called. So, I had no sense and no concept of that. In the process, maybe about two weeks later I was driving on the freeway and I got into a wreck. The car was totaled. If you saw the car you would have thought that I was dead. But I stepped out of the car without a scratch on my body. I literally heard the audible voice of God again saying, “I’m calling you to preach.” I shook it off and I said, “I don’t want to preach.” So, three weeks later I’m driving and this is around prom season. So, I get my tuxedo and I’m coming out on a four lane highway that does not have a light and it’s 5:00 traffic. The first lane waves me through because I’m trying to get to the other side, and as soon as I get to that second lane a car hits me going 70 mph. I’m going like three miles an hour, trying to get to the other side of the highway. The car was completely totaled. If you saw the car you would have thought I was dead. I got out of the car without a scratch on my body. I literally heard the audible voice of God say, again, “I’m calling you to preach.” Well, by this time, being in two wrecks in the span of five weeks, my mother thought something was really, really wrong with me. But after she got over it she said, “Well, you know, when you graduated from high school I was going to get you a car so maybe I’ll just go ahead and get it now.” So, she goes and gets me a car. Why does she do that? So, maybe about three weeks after having the car, I’m in my grandparents driveway and I cut the turn too close and I run up on some bricks and there’s a dent inside of the door. So, this wasn’t a bad wreck, but here it is I’m in all of these wrecks. And I hear the audible voice of God saying, “I’m calling you to preach.” I shook it off and I kept going. So, the last event that happened is that maybe about a month after that I had been out all day and I had went home and I was really, really hungry so I said, “I’m going to go home. I’m going to check in and I’m going to leave right again and I’m going to go grab something to eat and I’m going to come back.” So, I go home and I check in, and I leave the car outside, and I’m probably in the house maybe about one minute and I just hear something BOOM. I’m like, “Man, what in the world is that?” So, I look outside and my car is just rolling down the street. Ran into the mailbox, literally ran into the neighbor’s living room, it went through the bricks of the house, like down the street. To this day I don’t know if somebody stole the car, or if it was out of gear. The only reason I say somebody might have stole it is because I don’t see how the car could have turned on its own. It turned a couple of times. But nevertheless, it went into the neighbor’s living room. Thank God nobody was on the couch. And so I go down there and I see my car and the last audible voice I heard from God was, “Preach or die.” So, I looked at God. I said, “Lord, I don’t want to die.” I accepted my call to preach. When I accepted my call to preach there was an indescribable peace that just came over my heart. All the anxiety that I was carrying. All the anxiety that I had just supernaturally went away to the point to where I could not believe that I ran for so long. So, I guess I’m a Jonah, in a sense. Just literally went in the opposite direction. Couldn’t believe that I ran for so long. But once I accepted my call there was just such a peace that has come over me. That peace has not left me up until this day. I still have that very same peace. >>Doug Sweeney: My goodness, I think that must be the most dramatic story of somebody’s call to preach I have ever heard in my life. So, what about your grandfather? He’s a seasoned veteran preacher by this point? Is he helping you process this? Or your relationship with him at The Star develops later in your story? >>Dr. Beavers: So, our relationship pretty much really, really took off in 2000 when I was called to preach. He was a huge part of my life in just helping me process through it. But as I was running away from God and I didn’t want to do it I didn’t talk to him. So, I didn’t go back and talk to him until I said, “Hey, it’s time.” And so from then he helped me to understand – you know, when he was called to preach he ran from God as well. He didn’t really want to do it. But once he started doing it, God put him on earth to do it, God put him on earth to love people, and so he kind of walked me through his journey, which really gave me a footing for my own journey. My grandfather taught me so much. My grandfather was not only my pastor, but he was a mentor of mine, and really he was my father. My biological father was absent the majority of my life. So, really, my grandfather was my example of manhood, fatherhood. He was my example of Christianity. Everything that I know about being a man. Everything that I know about ministry – I get it from my grandfather. So, he was extremely instrumental in me processing my call to ministry, me walking into my call to ministry, and just extremely instrumental of who I am. I am who I am today. Not because of my education, not because of my connections. I am who I am because I’m literally standing on the shoulders of that giant. >>Kristen Padilla: Well, thank you for sharing your story. I’m thinking that many of our listeners may relate to your story of feeling calling by the Lord but running away from that call. After surrendering to that call to ministry sometime later you say that you came to Beeson. I would love to hear what led you to Beeson Divinity School? How did your theological education aid you as a young pastor? How does it continue to help you in your pastoral ministry today? And perhaps if you had any specific lessons that you learned while a student, or if there were any particular professors who made an impact on you we would love to hear about it. >>Dr. Beavers: Yes. I had a wonderful time at Beeson. Here’s how I got to Beeson: I played basketball at Kentucky State University. I actually went to Kentucky State University to become a medical doctor. I majored in Biology. I thought that I would become a medical doctor. When I got halfway through school I realized that I had the potential to be a doctor, because I could make good grades. But I did not have the passion to be a doctor. And because of that maybe around the beginning of my senior year I knew that I would be in full time ministry. I was already preaching in college, I just didn’t think that I would do it full time. But I knew my senior year I’d be in full time ministry. So, instead of me taking the MCAT and going to medical school I decided to start applying for seminary schools. And my family was really, really upset because they wanted me and expected me to be the first doctor inside of the family. So, I disappointed a lot of my family by going into the ministry. So, back to basketball. We played our very last game my senior year of college. We played Clark Atlanta University in Atlanta, Georgia. And recruiters from ITC Seminary were in the stands to recruit me to go to ITC. ITC is the Inter-denominational Theological Center. I’m not sure if you’ve heard of that but that’s in Atlanta, Georgia. So, they were in the stands, the game was over, they came and talked to me, and said, “Hey, we have a scholarship. You won’t have to pay for a thing. Why don’t you come to ITC?” So, I told them I would come visit. So, my basketball season was over. I went to visit ITC, but I did not make up my mind. The day that I was packing my clothes to come home to Birmingham from Kentucky State University the Holy Spirit whispered inside of my ear, “Go home and sit at the feet of your grandfather.” Because the Holy Spirit told me that although I had a full scholarship to go to ITC and logic says to go to ITC because you have a full scholarship to go to ITC, everyone at Beeson at that time had a scholarship, but it was a partial scholarship. I didn’t have any debt. Going into college I had a full scholarship. Came out of college with no debt. Speaking of undergrad. And so logic says, “Going to ITC you’re not going to have any debt.” But when the Holy Spirit told me to, “Go home and sit at the feet of your grandfather.” Logic said, “Apply to Beeson and go to Beeson.” So, I applied to Beeson, by the grace of God I was able to get into Beeson, it’s been a wonderful journey. One of the things that I appreciate about Beeson is that Beeson is inter-denominational. Beeson has people from all different walks of life. And from all different denominations. The other thing that I appreciate about Beeson is that Beeson never told me what to believe about certain doctrines of the Bible, it never told me what to believe about certain things inside of the Bible, Beeson helped give me the tools to dig into the scriptures for myself so that I can come to my own belief concerning things inside of the scripture. Some of the things that I was taught as a kid I no longer believe. And some of the things that I was taught against as a kid I do believe now. As a result of being able to dig into the scriptures for myself. And so Beeson taught me things like that. But I’ll tell you my greatest blessing at Beeson. The very first day of class the professor asked us, he said, “I want you to stand. I want you to give your name. And I want you tell one thing about yourself.” I stood up. I said, “My name is Thomas and I love to preach.” So, I’m on my way out of class and this gentleman comes up behind me and he says, “So, Mr. Thomas.” I looked back at no one. And I looked down and I said, “Sir?” It was Dr. Ronald Sterling. He said, “So, you love to preach?” Because that his first year as well. I said, “Yes, sir. I love to preach.” He said, “But do you know how to love?” And I said, “Wow.” And that was the beginning of our relationship. Me and Dr. Ronald Sterling. Dr. Ronald Sterling is officially my pastor today. He is my pastor. He is my counselor. He holds me accountable. Because of him I’m married. Because of him I’m still married. He makes sure that I’m not just somebody that the world may see as a gifted preacher, but he makes sure that along with my gifts that my character is tight, and I don’t know where I would be without that man inside of my life. >>Doug Sweeney: That’s wonderful. For those of our listeners who don’t know all the professors at Beeson, Dr. Ronald Sterling is the Director of Student Services here and Professor of Spiritual Formation. He’s also a pastor in town. And a wonderful spiritual mentor to many of us. All right, Dr. Beavers, this is African-American Ministry Emphasis Month. We haven’t really talked much, yet, about your church and all the really exciting things going on at the New Rising Star Church in town. Could you kind of lay it on us? What’s going on? Why is your church called “The Star, New Rising Star Church?” And what are some of the ministries that you’re most excited about these days? >>Dr. Beavers: Got it. So, the official name of our church, the legal name of our church is New Rising Star Missionary Baptist Church. I quickly noticed that when I became a pastor that God allowed me to preach to a lot of people who wanted God, but didn’t want denominations. And so I never wanted our denomination or our name to be a distraction to people. As a consequence we never legally changed the name. It is still New Rising Star Missionary Baptist Church. But we wanted to come up with something where everybody felt welcome regardless of your denomination. Of course we want to reach new believers in Jesus Christ, those who have never confessed with their mouth that Jesus is Lord, believed inside of their heart that God raised Jesus from the dead, but also every now and again you have people who come to your church from different places as the Spirit leads and as the Lord leads. Sometimes although our church, on paper, is a Baptist church, sometimes the people who come to our church may not have grown up in a Baptist church. They may have grown up in a Pentecostal church, a [inaudible 00:21:38] church, an AME church, a non-denominational church. So, we are known as The Star in short. Everybody calls us The Star. That’s pretty much the reason why we made the change. Our church is located in zip code 35206. That area is rapidly changing, but it is high crime, it is high poverty. I believe the two are interconnected. When people don’t have what they need they take what they need by any means necessary. It is also connected to a disparity in education. Whenever kids are unable to get a good education. If they graduate from high school and get a job, most of the time they don’t make a livable wage, which throws them right back into the cycle of poverty and they have to climb high just to get to the bottom. And so under the leadership of my grandfather our church is 57 years old. We started in the summer of 1963, the heart of the Civil Rights Movement. In 57 years we have only had four pastors. My grandfather, Dr. Tommy Chappell was the third and longest tenured pastor. He pastored from 1975 until May of 2010 for 35 years. So, when he retired I succeeded in ministry. But throughout his ministry his ministry was not just a Sunday morning ministry. He was always deeply involved in the community and made sure that our church was deeply involved in the community. So, he really started our community development efforts. Our church does ministry in two different ways. We relieve people through outreach, that’s Matthew 25, by feeding the hungry, giving water to the thirsty, clothing the naked, visiting the sick, visiting those in prison, and taking in strangers. We also empower people through community development. We see community development as how we develop people. We do it in six ways. We do it through education, financial literacy, workforce development, housing, recreation, and the church. We chose those six areas on purpose. Because when people think about where they want to live. Our goal is to make the community around us a community of choice living. That means that I’m not living there because I have to, I’m living there because I choose to. When people think about where they choose to live one of the first questions they ask, especially if they have children, is what are the school systems like? One of the next questions they ask is what are the financial institutions like or do we only have payday lenders in this community that are getting rich off of the backs of poor people? Then they ask are there any jobs close by where we can make a livable wage. That’s the workforce development question. Or is there a place where I can get a skill to make a livable wage? So, that’s workforce development. Housing – nobody wants to move into a community where there is not adequate housing. Then the recreational questions is what is there to do in the community? I believe that when people act out in crime it’s not because they’re bad it’s because they’re bored. A lot of times when a community is dilapidated a lot of businesses move out of the community, and because they move out of the community there’s no longer anything to do inside of the community. So, you see the crime rate go up inside of that community. Then last, but not least, I believe with all my heart that every community needs a thriving, life giving church. We have programs in all six of these areas. And so that’s pretty much a sum total of the ministry that we do in our community. >>Kristen Padilla: Dr. Beavers, we know that pastoral ministry has been especially difficult and trying this year due to the COVID pandemic. And then racial and political crises, loss of jobs, et cetera. Can you tell us about your experience as a pastor this year? I’m thinking we have listeners who are in pastoral ministry and need a word of encouragement. So, perhaps you can share what has kept you going during this trying year? And then we have people listening who are church members and perhaps you can encourage them on how to be praying for their pastors this year. I wonder if you can reflect for a moment on your pastoral ministry this past year? >>Dr. Beavers: Yes, so COVID-19 changed everything. All of us know it. If somebody had told me at the beginning of 2020 that we were going to have church the traditional way up until the middle of March and then you would not see your congregation again until who knows when and the Lord will sustain you and even prosper you in it, I would have thought that they were absolutely crazy. But that’s exactly what has happened. At the beginning of 2020 I had the opportunity to take a trip to Israel. I came back from Israel and as soon as I stepped off of the plane ... We flew back to Houston, Texas. I had so many texts asking, “Hey, are you okay? Did you make it back?” And I didn’t know what in the world was going on. Well, long story short, the day I left Israel was the day that my entire hotel got quarantined. If we didn’t leave when we left, if we had to stay 30 more minutes I would not have made it back to Birmingham, Alabama. And so we made it back and we ended up having church the following Sunday. I had never heard of COVID-19. Didn’t know how bad it was. And the CDC at that time said, “Hey, as long as you have 500 or less we think that you’re safe.” And we had three services and none of the services had over 500 people. And so we thought that we were safe. So, we ended up having church. But because of fear only half of our congregation showed up that Sunday. So, the very next Sunday we shut everything down. We have not been physically in our building in corporate worship since Sunday, March 15th of 2020. Everything has been completely online. So, at first that was really scary. How are we going to make it? How are we going to survive? Can this online thing really survive? We know that online can be a support to what you already have going on, but how are we going to make it? How are we going to make it financially? How are we going to be in touch with our people? And so we had questions just like everybody else had questions. And not just how are we going to make it, but now that we’re learning more and more about COVID-19 by that time there was just a lot of fear. And there’s still a lot of fear. So, when we think about that concerning our church God allowed us to pretty much transition everything online. By the grace of God we have not missed a beat. Everything is technology. People can join the church online, become members online, small groups have been moved to online, giving was already online, and so that was a smooth transition. However, I will say this. It’s many pastors and people are grieving. And one of the reasons they’re grieving is because no matter how much Word you can get online, online does not give you in person fellowship. And in person fellowship is needed for spiritual growth. It does not take the place of being able to rub souls with people. And so what I have been seeing is that problems that people were already going through compounded with the isolation of quarantining ... “Don’t touch anybody.” “Don’t go anywhere.” The problems have been heightened, mental health crises have been heightened, depression has been at an all time high – not just for parishioners, but even for pastors. And so we saw that. And then as if COVID-19 health pandemic was not enough, then you have a COVID-19 economic pandemic. People are starting to get laid off because everything is shutting down. As if the COVID-19 economic pandemic is not enough, then Ahmaud Arbery, George Floyd, Brianna Taylor, all of them get tragically killed and now we have a race pandemic that is going on. And if that’s not enough, leading into election season, now we have a political pandemic that is absolutely crazy and that’s going on. I believe that the root of all of it was a spiritual pandemic. And so I believe one of the good things about COVID-19 in the church is that God literally for a season put the church out of the building. The Great Commissions tells us to go, but sometimes we can become so complacent at staying inside of the building, but he allowed us to get outside of the building and have an excuse to do it, and to do what he really told us to do. So, I believe that the gospel has spread drastically during COVID-19. But it’s been difficult. And then compounded on top of all of that, when you’re losing loved ones. My grandfather, Dr. Tommy Chappell, he transitioned from earth unto eternity on March 19th, 2020. My grandmother, his wife, our first lady of our church, she transitioned from earth into eternity July 16th, 2020. And there has been nobody that has been on our team in our church who has not been touched by the death of a loved one in some shape, some form, and some fashion. So, on top of you already grieving your internal problems, when you see your loved ones start to go be with the Lord, we sorrow not as those who have no hope, but nevertheless we still sorrow. So, it’s been really difficult. If I can give a word of encouragement to anybody who is listening, who is grieving, I just pray God’s peace upon you. Peace is not the absence of conflict. Peace is the presence of God inside of the conflict. He promised that he would never leave us, that he would never forsake us, that he would be with us always, even until the end of the world. And because he is always with us we don’t have to wait until the grief or the conflict is over to have peace. But God says we can have peace while we’re in the middle of it, because we still have him. >>Doug Sweeney: Pastor Beavers, real briefly, you preached a wonderful sermon last week in chapel from Matthew 28, the God of resurrection. Some of the people listening to this podcast heard it live, but not everybody did. Would you mind helping me persuade the rest of our listeners who didn’t get a chance to hear it yet to go on the web and listen to it by telling us what was that sermon about? >>Dr. Beavers: Yes. Beeson is doing this cool thing called Sinews of the Scripture. They’re going through different doctrines inside of the Bible and one of the doctrines inside of the Bible is resurrection. First and foremost we understand that resurrection is a miracle. Every miracle that God did, he did it in the face of an impossibility. Many people who may be watching right now may be facing what they deem as an impossible situation. Perhaps they are discouraged because they see no way out. I want people to understand that whenever you face an impossible situation that’s not the time to be discouraged, it’s the time to be encouraged, because your impossibility makes you a prime candidate for God to work a miracle inside of your life. We see resurrection, or the miracle of resurrection, inside of the Old Testament. We see it with the prophet Elijah. We see it with the prophet Elisha. And then we see resurrection inside of the New Testament. In the New Testament we see it on several different occasions. The daughter of Jairus is resurrected from the dead. The son of the widow of Nain is resurrected from the dead. Lazarus is resurrected from the dead. Jesus is resurrected from the dead. And then guess what? Those of us who die, the Lord if he does not tarry, guess what? We will be resurrected from the dead as well. And in these miracles what I see in the New Testament is basically Jesus does the same thing but he never does it the same way. When he resurrected the daughter of Jairus he took the little girl by the hand and said, “[inaudible 00:33:50] I say unto you, arise.” He actually touched her. When he resurrected the son of the widow of Nain he did not touch him, he only touched the box that he was in. When he resurrected Lazarus he didn’t touch anything. He just called his name. And so when God does miracles we cannot get caught up in the method, because Jesus can do the same thing but he does not always use the same method. So, our focus should never be the method, it should only be the master. So, God is not bound by method. He is not bound by the minute either. He is not bound by time. If you think about the daughter of Jairus who got up out of the grave, or the daughter of Jairus who was resurrected, she died and she was still inside of the house. The son of the widow of Nain, he died and somebody would say that his situation was a little bit worse. He wasn’t in the house, he was in the funeral processional on the way to the cemetery. Lazarus died and Lazarus was actually in the cemetery. He was actually in the grave. And so the situation gets worse and worse and worse. But guess what? He’s not bound by the method. He’s not bound by the minute. He’s not bound by time. He’s not bound by anything. Maybe Satan would taunt Jesus and say, “You know, I’ve seen you resurrect all of these other people, but can you resurrect yourself?” And all of us know the story of Jesus. It is the crux of the Christian faith. He did get up out of the grave. That is what the Apostles preached. They preached that he got up. Because he lives we can face tomorrow. So, go back and listen to the message. I pray that it will be a blessing to your life. >>Doug Sweeney: Amen. Thank you so much, Pastor Beavers, for being with us. Listeners, you have been listening to the Reverend Dr. Thomas Beavers. He is the Senior Pastor of The New Rising Star Church here in Birmingham, in the Eastlake community. A two time alumnus, we are very proud to say, of Beeson Divinity School. And a wonderfully faithful and fruitful pastor. Thank you for joining us. We’re continuing to pray for you. Please remember Beeson in your prayers. We love you. Goodbye for now. >>Kristen Padilla: You’ve been listening to the Beeson podcast. Our theme music is written and performed by Advent Birmingham of the Cathedral Church of the Advent in Birmingham, Alabama. Our engineer is Rob Willis. Our announcer is Mike Pasquarello. Our co-hosts are Doug Sweeney and, myself, Kristen Padilla. Please subscribe to the Beeson podcast at www.BeesonDivinity.com/podcast or on iTunes.