Beeson Podcast, Episode #525 Dr. Gary Fenton Dec. 1, 2020 >>Announcer: Welcome to the Beeson podcast, coming to you from Beeson Divinity School on the campus of Samford University. Now your hosts, Doug Sweeney and Kristen Padilla. >>Doug Sweeney: Welcome to the Beeson Podcast. I’m your host, Doug Sweeney, here with my co-host, Kristen Padilla. I know I’m speaking for both of us as I wish you a blessed Advent. During the COVID epidemic our longing for the return of Jesus Christ has grown more poignant and has deepened our appreciation for God in the flesh. Immanuel our Savior. Our guest on the show today is an exceptionally well known clergyman in central Alabama and a new and key member of Beeson’s administrative staff. We want to share him with you today and explore the ways in which God has used his life and ministry in service of the Church and this divinity school. So, Kristen, who is this dear friend and partner in ministry? >>Kristen Padilla: We have on the show today the Reverend Doctor Gary Fenton. He is the Senior Advancement Officer at Samford University and Beeson Divinity School. He earned his bachelor’s degree from Southern Nazarene University, his MDiv degree from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, and his DMin degree from Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. Dr. Fenton has been a pastor for his entire adult life and the longest period was spent at Dawson Memorial Baptist Church in Homewood. He is married to Alta Faye and they have three adult married daughters and five grandchildren. So, welcome, Dr. Fenton, to the Beeson Podcast. >>Dr. Fenton: Pleasure to be here. I’m looking forward to the conversation today. >>Kristen Padilla: Well, we are so glad you’re here. We’re looking forward to getting to know you better. So, we always like to begin by allowing you to introduce yourself a little bit fuller. Please tell us about you. Where did you grow up? How did you come to faith in Jesus Christ? Anything you want to say about your spiritual journey. >>Dr. Fenton: I grew up in southwest Missouri. Most of my life was spent there. My dad was a country preacher. Now we call it bi-vocational minister. But he primarily preached in churches that were held in school houses. It was soon after World War II. They would close the school and there would be a community church there. My father had a fifth grade education, but he was extremely well read. I grew up listening to my father preach and it was what I call “hardcore evangelism.” It was very directed towards decisions being made at the end of the service. Probably I was ten years old and a friend of my father’s was leading in a new church. Now we would call it a church plant. What they did then was they took an existing building that had been an old donut shop in my hometown. They were going to try to meet for three or four months, hoping to gather enough momentum and enough people to establish a church. The man, Reverend Paul Kennison, who was starting it was a good friend of my father. So, we went to the opening revival. And they began with the weeklong revival services. On one of the revival services I sense God’s conviction in my life. And it was such a small group there. There were probably no more than 20. Reverend Kennison said, “If you’re here and you’re a parent, have you ever asked your children if they were ready to make a profession of faith, or if they needed to do some business with God?” My mother turned around and said to me, “Are you ready, Gary?” And it was as if God was speaking through her conversation with me. I went forward. There we knelt on what was really a donut shelf floor, at an altar. In some ways it was a disappointing experience for me. My father had become a believe when he was in his mid 30s. Had a dramatic conversion experience. I was expecting the same response when, at ten years of age, I became a Christian. There was no emotion. I knew what I was doing. I was very convinced of the promises of God. But I didn’t have any feeling that I had heard him describe in his preaching. So, I felt that I did become a Christian, but for the next several years I struggled with assurance because my life story was different than his. My father’s was dramatic, he had turned from use of alcohol. His life turned around. I wasn’t born till my father was in his 40s. The only thing I had ever known was my mother and father being fine Christians, taking us to church. So, looking back, it has more meaning than it did at the moment, but I knew that I was becoming a Christian. Probably for the next four or five years I struggled with that issue of assurance. And then during my senior year of high school I became convinced that God was leading me in my call into ministry. I went to Bethany Nazarene College, because my father technically was a Nazarene. He didn’t preach in Nazarene churches, but he had been licensed in the Church of the Nazarene. I went to Bethany and all I knew was that the only form of ministry I knew was to be a preacher. I didn’t know that churches had youth ministers and the other things. So, I felt that I was following in God’s leadership, went to Bethany, and had a very good experience there. I felt that I got very well grounded in my faith while I was at Bethany. >>Doug Sweeney: Dr. Fenton, around here we all know you as a prominent southern Baptist pastor. So, I wonder if you could tell us how you got from Bethany and being a Nazarene young person, feeling a tug toward pastoral ministry, to becoming a southern Baptist pastor and becoming the pastor of one of the most prominent Baptist churches in our town, Dawson Memorial? >>Dr. Fenton: While I was at Bethany the college hired ... Well, they had the rule that they would only hire Nazarene professors. They hired the first Baptist adjunct that they had hired. I took one of his classes and I heard him describe his faith and I was struggling some with the Nazarene doctrine ... the Nazarene’s are a very solid evangelical denomination, but my understanding of sanctification was that it was more of a process. The church there had it more as of an event, an experience. Well, hearing him describe his own journey left me sort of knowing that I really wasn’t sure that I fit in Nazarene life, but trying to figure out what I was going to be. He made an appointment with me for me with a man named Dr. Herschel Hobbes. I didn’t know who Dr. Herschel Hobbes was. He was the pastor of Oklahoma City First Church. I just figured he was another ordinary pastor. I made an appointment with him and he met with me for six weeks in a row. This was 1969. I did not realize that he had been the editor of the Baptist Faith and Message. The 1963 version. And he and I went through that two chapters each week. And when it was over he said to me, “Gary, I don’t know whether you will ever officially become a Baptist, but you are a Baptist.” He said, “Your theology matches what we believe.” And he says, “I commend you for being on the search and I would love to have you as a member of our church, but I want you to deal with your Nazarene denomination the way God leads you.” I went back and visited with some of my Nazarene friends. Then joined Oklahoma City First Baptist during my senior year of college. I’ve never looked back. >>Doug Sweeney: And then how do you get from there to Birmingham, Alabama and serving here at Dawson? >>Dr. Fenton: Well, my journey as a pastor has ... I wouldn’t take anything for it. While I was a student at Southwestern Seminary I pastored at Leon Baptist Church. Leon spelled backwards is “NOEL.” That was its claim to fame. (laughs) But we had probably 30 to 40 houses in the community total. Maybe 25 people on Sunday and a good Sunday there was 35. And they loved me and they really taught me and loved me into being a pastor. It was 115 miles from Southwestern Seminary. I went up on the weekend. I didn’t know anything about being a Baptist pastor. I’d been a Baptist less than a year. They listened to me. They very gently corrected me. They encouraged me. I have been so blessed to have such a wonderful foundation. When I finished my rest of seminary while I was there, then went to Branson, Missouri. Branson, Missouri was a small town that was starting to boom. It’s a tourist area in Missouri. One of the intriguing factors when I went there I was not aware that they had fired the previous pastor. They failed to mention that to me, the pulpit committee. His last Sunday there had been a very volatile Sunday in many ways. They had to escort him out of the church. He was heard yelling at the people and at the deacons who escorted him out, “This church will never grow.” >>Doug Sweeney: Oh my. >>Dr. Fenton: “I am not the problem.” He did me one of the greatest favors he could ever do, because they were trying to prove that he was wrong. I pastored there for three years. It was a time of significant growth in the life of the church. After three years I really sensed God calling me to another church. I did not want to leave Branson. Looking back, it was very good because Branson was growing. The church was growing. I wasn’t growing. I was enjoying the attention. It was sort of a fair haired young preacher boy in the church, “he must be doing something right.” A church in west central Missouri, Windsor, Missouri, called me and it was very traditional. I remember saying, “Lord, let there be 17 votes against me when they vote on me that way I can feel justified in not coming here.” But anyway, they called me. Soon after I went there one of the gentlemen met with me and he said, “I’m not sure the search committee told you this, but I have told them that if they called a young minister who wanted to do his doctoral studies, I would pay his entire doctoral experience expenses while he’s here. And the church has already agreed that you can go for your doctor of ministry degree.” >>Doug Sweeney: Wow. >>Dr. Fenton: And he was a trustee at Midwestern Seminary. So, I was able to do my doctoral work there. I went from there to Stillwater, Oklahoma. A university town, which was a unique and different experience. The university community was completely different than the rural community in Windsor or the entrepreneurial community in Branson. I stayed at First Baptist Stillwater for six and a half years. Went from there to Tyler, Texas, where I followed a gentleman who was there for 30 years. He followed a relative of his who had been there for 30 years. So, I was sort of the first non family member that had been pastor there in 60 years. Had a wonderful time. Then unexpectedly was contacted by the committee here at Dawson Memorial. The church had gone through a major split, a major division. We came here in 1991 not really knowing how long I would stay because they thought it was just going to be a time to pull a church back together. But stayed for 25, almost 26 years. Every church that I’ve been in we’ve had our share of problems. But there have been encouragers, there have been people who have walked alongside of me. Quoting my mentor who said, “If I had a thousand lives to live I would want to live everyone as a pastor.” I really can say I would not regret having to live all of my life again as a pastor. >>Kristen Padilla: You’ve been so gracious to share your pastoral wisdom with younger pastors. One way that you have done this is through a writing ministry. You are an author and one of the books I want to mention, and ask you about, is this book called, “Your Ministry’s Next Chapter: Restoring the Passion of the Mid Career Pastor.” What led you to write this book? What is it that you’re saying to pastors about persevering in ministry? I would ask maybe a third question, what kind of impact has this book had on pastors? At least the impact that you’re aware of. >>Dr. Fenton: I’m a narrative preacher. I tell lots of stories. There’s almost a story behind every chapter of my life. When I was about 50 I’d been pastor of Dawson close to ten years. We had a couple of young families who had moved out to the southern part of Birmingham, and they joined local churches there. I was a little concerned about that. I know they said they were doing it because their children wanted to go to church where their kids went to school and all of that. That made sense. But I was talking to a friend of mine in Dallas, Texas. He was telling me that his pastor had resigned and he says, “I’ve got to find a new church.” And I said, “Why do you have to find a new church?” He’s a layman in the church. I said, “Your church will have another pastor.” He says, “Well, I really misspoke. My pastor didn’t resign. My pastor retired. He retired in place. He’s got 12 more years before he reaches the actual retirement. His retirement is unofficial, but he’s just going through the motion. And I do not want to raise my children in a church where the pastor is just going through the motions for 10 to 12 years.” Well, when I heard that story I wondered, “Is that what happened at Dawson?” Were these kind people who just left the church because they saw me going through the motions? And had I lost the passion and the purpose of my ministry? That was the stimulus to write the book. I contacted six to eight pastors that I thought still had fire in their bones. I interviewed them and with two of them I shadowed them for two or three days to see what their ministry was like. I realized that there were certain things that you [I] needed to do at midlife to keep me from burning out or rusting out, whatever term you would want to use. I caused me to sharpen my skills in particular areas. I remember probably four or five years after that event took place and I had done my research and interaction standing before the church and saying, “I have learned and am in the process of learning how to become a pastor altogether, all over again.” The skill set that I had earlier in my life is no longer exactly needed today. I need to sharpen who I am and what I’m doing. And the interesting thing about the book, it was designed for men in their 50s who are facing the final chapter of their ministry. The book sold to ministers from 38-45. The publisher and some other people I talked with said they were convinced that in the late 30s and early 40s many ministers are trying to decide, “Do I want to do this for the rest of my life?” And that’s the people that I’ve had the most interaction with. In that age group – trying to say, “What do I need to stay sharp?” >>Doug Sweeney: Kristen and I know and a lot of our listeners will know that the current senior pastor of the Dawson Memorial Baptist Church is another Beeson person, Dr. David Eldridge. We know because David has told us, Dr. Fenton, that you have done a marvelous job preparing the way for him to take that church over from you. Kristen and I have thought it might be helpful to our listeners to ask you what you did. We hear so many stories about how well you handled that transition. And how well David did as he landed, partly because of your ministry to him and just the way you handled things, the succession from you to David. So, Gary, what did you do? What advice do you have for other pastors who are maybe thinking about a similar transition? >>Dr. Fenton: Well, first of all, David has been more than gracious. I didn’t do near as much as he thought that I have done. Two or three things that I did. I was very intentional really with the last five years of my ministry there. I didn’t discuss my pending retirement with many in the church until about a year in advance. But I began looking at what needed to be done and the direction that I felt the church would most likely take after I left. Dr. Tom Courts, who was president of here at Samford University – several years before he retired told me, “Gary, when you get ready to retire, start a project that you cannot finish. Make it bigger than you, because if you can finish it then you will leave the impression ‘the word is done, we’ve got a break till the new pastor comes.’” During that we began preparing for that chapter, three or four years in advance. The chapter at Dawson was a project that was bigger than anything we’d ever attempted. We had gone through I think four to five building programs at Dawson. We’d pretty well rebuilt the entire campus. We decided that within the last year of my being pastor at Dawson that we would do a mission project. It was a million dollars times five. There were five mission projects costing us a million dollars each in five locations throughout the world. We would raise the money, just like we did for our building campaign. We would not reduce our missions commitment and anything else. We wouldn’t shift any money. We would raise money and engage in mission projects throughout the world. In southern Baptist churches that was a rather new model. Many people had questions over it. There wasn’t really opposition, but it was, “How in the world are we going to do this?” And that was one of the things ... it took about a year for us to do it. We pledged it. It just started and then I announced my retirement. It took four more years for them to complete it. But that was one of the key things. One other thing that I look back and I’m very grateful that I did, there were four or five leaders in the church and I began looking at their ages and my ages, and we were all close to the same age. I pulled them in and we began talking about some of the changes that might happen upon my retirement. I said to them, “Do you realize that the new pastor will be 10, 15, maybe 20 years younger than I am? You will not be in his peer group. Will you be able to handle that?” I said, “No matter how much you love him, you will not be his peer. You will not have the same life experiences.” With the group there was ... it was an a-ha moment. So, we spent several weeks sort of dealing with that. Because I think that was a significant preparation. Also, during the process I participated in a two year conference off and on again that leadership network had with probably ten pastors who were all coming close to the age of retirement, none of us had announced our retirement. And there was great peer learning from each other of how we were going to do it. Another thing I did was when I retired I told the church I was stay gone for at least three years. I was in no way involved in the search process. I know some pastors like to stay involved. But I knew, knowing me, I couldn’t do that well. (laughs) So, I stayed gone for three years. Now we’re back at Dawson three years later. >>Kristen Padilla: Well, we mentioned at the beginning of the show that you now serve in advancement, both for the university and for Beeson Divinity School. How about just say a word about that transition from being a full time pastor to working at a university, on a university campus? And about just your passion for stewarding generosity in Christians. I know you’ve talked about that and one of the things that you love ... doing that things that you do here. So, can you tell us more about generosity and what led you to Samford? >>Dr. Fenton: Another story. (laughs) I was a trustee at Samford and I knew that I probably would want something part time to do after I finished my retirement at Dawson. But I had a conversation with an older gentleman who was a fundraiser. He had been a pastor before. I remember over lunch he said to me, “Gary, do you really believe that God provides all you need?” And I said, “Yes.” He says, “Do you really believe that?” I said, “Well, yeah.” He says, “Is there a reason, then, you never talk about money much at church? You talk about our resources, our ...” he says, “You avoid the word ‘money.’ Do you really think that God’s promises can be applied to his provision for every means of life?” And that was a wakeup call. I realized that I saw stewardship as primarily a means of it’s the way you kept the church going. And I got really interested as God began to work in my own heart regarding my own generosity and I realized that it really is a matter of trusting God. You’re trusting God for all of the resources, for the way you use your time and your talent. And in my last few years at Dawson we made significant inroads into helping people increase their generosity. Now here at Beeson and Samford I love what I do. I get to talk to people about investing in the future, using God’s resources for his work in the Kingdom for today and tomorrow. It’s exciting because I don’t feel that I’m asking for money, I feel like I’m inviting them to join in the work of God through Beeson and Samford. >>Doug Sweeney: Well, goodness, it would be a dereliction of duty on my part as Dean of Beeson not to follow up on that comment. >>Dr. Fenton: (laughs) >>Doug Sweeney: And ask you to let our dear friends know what’s going on here, Gary? How might they contribute to the work of the Lord at Beeson Divinity School these days? >>Dr. Fenton: Well, at Beeson we have a marvelous gift. We have many gifted and talented faculty members, but one in particular. Dr. Robert Smith. Wow. He is a fantastic preacher. He is, I think, the best preacher in the southern Baptist convention. He’s sought after every place. And he’s such a generous spirit. Well, we’ve started scholarship in his honor. We’re trying to raise $500,000 to help other people be able to go to seminary. It’s got a minimal goal of $100,000. We’ve almost got that. We’re getting close. Over the next year we’d love to get it to $500,000 because every gift brings with it a responsibility. Dr. Smith is a gift to Beeson. We have a responsibility to use his gift to see that other people can be as educated and be as trained so that at the same time we’re preparing the next Dr. Smith and the next Dr. Smith. Now, they will have different names. They will have different styles. But I’m really convinced that Beeson is one of the places that God is using to educate future pastors and preachers to lead in the work of the Kingdom. >>Doug Sweeney: Amen. >>Kristen Padilla: Dr. Fenton, if people want to give to that scholarship or they want to participate in the ministry of Beeson through just different ways to support us, whether it’s financially or otherwise, how can they get in touch with you? >>Dr. Fenton: You could call me at my work number: 205-726-4676. Or you can even call me on my cell phone: 205-999-8883. We’ll be glad to answer any questions and any contributions you have, just send to the Advancement Office at Beeson or Samford University. It’s really exciting to see how people are, they’re just now learning about the scholarship. But there is so much excitement because he has impacted so many people. >>Kristen Padilla: Thank you for that. We always like to end just by hearing what God is doing in your life these days, or perhaps you can share something that he is teaching you as a way to encourage our listeners in their own walk with Jesus Christ. >>Dr. Fenton: My devotional life ... I am using II Corinthians now. I’m working through two or three verses a day. And God has really been using II Corinthians to keep me encouraged. Both my wife and I have had COVID. I’ve recovered, doing very well. My wife is recovering, but much more slowly than I am. In that process Paul’s instruction to the Church keeps them encouraged, keeps them and reminds them that their hope is found in Christ. I think specifically since COVID, the election, and all of those things, the temptation is to focus on the things that are seen and start believing this is really what matters. It’s been really enlightening for me, again, to go back and sort of read it like I’m a new Christian with that excitement that it’s the unseen, it’s the spiritual that is real and that is eternal. That’s been very helpful to me and II Corinthians has become my new favorite book of the New Testament. >>Doug Sweeney: Wonderful, wise words. Dear listeners, you have been listening to the Reverend Dr. Gary Fenton, a faithful minister of the gospel for many, many years. Best known around Birmingham, Alabama as the recently retired senior pastor of the Dawson Memorial Baptist Church. But on our show today also because he’s a dear friend at Beeson and Samford and works these days as Senior Advancement Officer here. We are grateful to you, Gary, for giving us this time today and for your partnership in the Lord’s work here. We are grateful to all of our listeners for being with us again. We do covet your support and your prayers. We want you to know we love you and we pray for you all the time. We look forward to meeting with you again on the air next week. We say goodbye for now. >>Kristen Padilla: You’ve been listening to the Beeson podcast. Our theme music is written and performed by Advent Birmingham of the Cathedral Church of the Advent in Birmingham, Alabama. Our engineer is Rob Willis. Our announcer is Mike Pasquarello. Our co-hosts are Doug Sweeney and, myself, Kristen Padilla. Please subscribe to the Beeson podcast at www.BeesonDivinity.com/podcast or on iTunes.