Beeson Podcast, Episode #518 Clark Watson Oct. 13, 2020 >>Announcer: Welcome to the Beeson podcast, coming to you from Beeson Divinity School on the campus of Samford University. Now your hosts, Doug Sweeney and Kristen Padilla. >>Doug Sweeney: Welcome to the Beeson Podcast. I am Doug Sweeney, here with my co-host, Kristen Padilla. This week on the show we’re continuing our series called Christian Faith at Work. We hope that you’ve been blessed by listening to the guests in this exciting new series sharing the ways in which their faith informs their work in business and the professions. Kristen is about to introduce today’s guest, but before she does let me say how much I’ve enjoyed working with him here at Beeson and Samford. Not only do we serve together on Samford’s administration, but he’s also a key board member here at the Divinity School. He’s become a good friend and wise counselor to me. And I am thrilled to feature him on the podcast today. Kristen, would you tell us just a little bit more about who we have on the show? >>Kristen Padilla: Hello, everyone, welcome to the Beeson Podcast. As Doug has mentioned we have Clark Watson on the show today. He is the general counsel for Samford University. Previously, Clark was a partner in the Birmingham office of Balch & Bingham, LLP. He was a past member of Samford University’s board of trustees, having served as its Chair from 2007 to 2011. As already mentioned, he is a current Beeson advisory board member. Clark and his wife, Debbie, have two adult daughters and five grandchildren. They are active members at Mountain Brook Community Church. Welcome, Clark, to the Beeson Podcast. >>Watson: Thank you, Kristen. Thank you, Doug. And thank you, both, for your kind words. >>Kristen Padilla: Clark, we would love to hear more about yourself. Why don’t you introduce us to you and mention how you came to faith in Jesus Christ? >>Watson: I’ll be very happy to do that. I’m a lifelong resident of Birmingham and throughout my childhood and my youth my family attended Shades Mountain Baptist Church. And it was there that I came to faith in Christ and was baptized. And after high school I attended Auburn University where I attended Pharmacy school. But I must say that during high school and college, rather than growing in my walk with the Lord I digressed. Upon graduating from college I began working as a pharmacist in a local drug store. I enjoyed the work, but I was increasingly unhappy in large part because I knew that I was spiritually empty. I was not enjoying the fellowship of people who would challenge me in the faith and encourage me in the faith. And I distinctly remember one Sunday morning, before I was to leave my apartment and go open the pharmacy, I knelt next to my bed and prayed that God would bring some Christian friends into my life, and if it would not be too much trouble I would really like to meet a lovely Christian girl. A few hours later I had my first conversation with my future wife, Debbie [inaudible 00:03:40], when she came into the drug store after church to pick up a few items. We soon had a date and we have now been married for more than 43 years. My relationship with Debbie and most importantly our marriage started me on a more intentional path in my life with Christ. And it continues to this day. As you mentioned, Kristen, I have two wonderful daughters, Melanie Anderson and Beth Ann Hill. They’re both married to remarkable young men. Reynolds Anderson and Graham Hill. Graham being the Beeson alumnus. And I have five of the most spectacular grandchildren on the face of the earth. >>Doug Sweeney: That is wonderful, Clark. Can you tell our listeners just a little bit about your career? We’re going to ask you the most important questions of the day that have to do with how your faith has made a difference in your career. But what drew you in to the law? And what kinds of law did you practice before you wound up at Samford University? >>Watson: Well, being drawn into the practice of law and into a career in that is another interesting story to me. Soon after Debbie and I were married I entered what I’ve often called a season of holy discontent. She thought that she had married a man who was in an established profession or career and that life would have some stability to it. But God gave me a sense of restlessness about my work. And he let me know that change was in the works, but although my prayer about meeting a Christian lady was answered far quicker than I thought, the answer to my prayer about my life’s work ... God maybe weighed on that answer quite a bit longer. As you know, in spiritual matters, the journey is part of the experience. If not the most important part of the experience when you’re seeking the Lord’s will in your life. I soon came to the point where I felt that I would go to either seminary or to law school. And as I continued to seek clarity I was convinced that law school was God’s direction for me. So, I enrolled at the Cumberland School of Law in 1978. After graduation I clerked for a United States federal judge, Judge James Hancock, who just recently passed away. He was a great mentor to me. And my career in private practice of law was focused in business law with the occasional litigation matter, but in a vast array of just business matters such as the buying and selling of businesses, real estate transactions, financial transactions, and just serving as a counselor to business people in Alabama and some beyond the state. >>Kristen Padilla: Clark, you are, as we’ve already heard, a committed lay person who is trying to make a difference for Christ and his Kingdom. That’s obvious to anyone who knows you and I would think our listeners who have already heard you talk about your faith and what led you to law. But we want to get in, now, particularly to discuss your work at Samford. How does a general counsel serve the university? I would imagine that’s a pretty big job. And we would love to learn more about your work here. And then as a committed Christian and lay person, how does your faith inform and shape the work that you do here at Samford? >>Watson: First, let me say it is one of the greatest privileges in my life to serve as the General Counsel at Samford. In that role I’m the Chief Legal Officer for the university and I report to the President and I report to the Board of Trustees. So, among other things I prepare and review all university contracts, I manage all matters that we assign to outside counsel, such as financial transactions or litigation. I participate with the President and the Vice President in most of the major decisions that are made by the university. And I try to keep Samford compliant with all kinds of state and federal laws. As some people refer to my job description is I’m the Chief Problem Solver for Samford. And I like that. My practice in private practice was very diverse. And it prepared me well for all of the different things that I handle at Samford. And I really think that my 30+ years of law practice prepared me well for this. Some of my former partners occasionally refer to me as ... “now that I’ve semi retired and gone to Samford.” But I’m working harder than I ever have in my whole life. (laughs) I went from a law firm of about 270 lawyers to a law office of one. But I love it. It’s great. I’m very, very pleased to be here. My door is always open to anybody at Samford who has something that I can perhaps help them with. >>Doug Sweeney: I happen to know, Clark, that on your office wall here at Samford University is prominently displayed a diploma from a seminary. And there aren’t lots of lawyers who have been a successful as you in the practice of law who also have seminary degrees. I bet our audience would be fascinated to learn why you decided to get a seminary degree and what difference it’s made as you’ve tried to live out your faith in your daily life? >>Watson: Well, I’ve always thought that there were similarities between the ministry and the practice of law. I’ve observed that I think that most great preachers would be great lawyers. But I don’t necessarily think that works in the other direction. But as I mentioned in about 1978 I was considering seminary and law school. Although I became a lawyer I always enjoyed teaching Sunday school and leading Bible studies. I read a lot. I’ve compiled more books than Debbie ever wanted me to have about theology in the house. But I always wanted a more formal theological education. So, it was about 2012 and we were attending church at the Church of Brook Hills. Our pastor, David Platt, announced that the church was going to start a pilot program with the Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in which some of our church members could earn seminary degrees in a program that would be taught by seminary professors and some of the people that are on the church staff that had their terminal theological degrees. The moment it came out of his mouth, Debbie turned to me and said, “Well, I guess it’s about that time.” (laughs) And that was precisely what was going through my mind at that moment. So, I began a five year journey of seminary classes at nights and on weekends while keeping a full time law practice. And it would have been great to have a degree from Beeson, but circumstances just didn’t allow in the schedule. The flexibility I had with the program offered by Southeastern allowed me to get a masters degree and I’ve been very thankful for that. Some people have asked me, “What do you plan to do with a seminary degree?” And my reply is, “I’m not going to do anything with it other than maybe hang it on my office,” as you observed there, Dean. “I’m through trying to build my resume.” But I’m grateful for what I learned and the instructors taught me how to better read, understand, and teach the Bible. And that’s what I wanted out of it. And if the Lord has some ministry opportunity for me in the future that that degree will perhaps open a door for, that will be fine. But I’m just thankful that I had the experience. >>Kristen Padilla: We’re just so thankful that you are someone who is faithfully following God’s call in both law and ministry and theology. Our last two guests in this series worked in businesses that some might call “secular” or in businesses that don’t necessarily identify as “Christian.” Yet you work here at Samford, at an institution who’s identity is Christian at its core. And some of our listeners, I’m just imagining here for a moment, might think it’s easier for you to live out your Christian faith or to integrate faith and work at a place like Samford. Is this true? Are there indeed strengths and blessings working at a Christian institution? And on the other hand are there challenges, and if so what are they, to working at a place where most people are assumed to be Christian? >>Watson: Yes to all of those, Kristen. Samford is a wonderful place, but it’s not like going to vacation bible school every day. Samford has about 5700 students, they have over a thousand employees, we have numerous contract personnel that are on campus every day, and it’s a very complex organism. I equate it to being like a very large commercial business, or a moderate sized city. There’s just so many different aspects to it. But the reason that I came here is because it is a community that is intentionally Christian. And so in the midst of those complexities and in the midst of all of the what seems to be the mundane, normal transactional type of part of running an organization such as Samford I know that I can speak openly and boldly about my faith in Jesus Christ, and everyone else can do likewise. So, that’s great. I have terrific conversations at Samford with people. We don’t always agree on everything. But that’s okay. And as a lawyer for Samford, when someone disagrees with the university they’ll often come back at me with something along the lines of, “Well, I thought you were a Christian university.” It’s in those situations when people try to use Samford’s Christian identity as a weapon against us. I try to respond calmly and with kindness, affirming our Christian identity and that we are indeed Christian. And then I try to make sure that we conduct ourselves in a Christ honoring way, even when people are critical of it. So, that’s one of the challenges of representing a Christian university in legal matters. But I feel like I have a special responsibility, both to Samford’s legal best interest and also in reflecting its genuine commitment to the Lord Jesus. >>Doug Sweeney: In this Christian Faith at Work series, Clark, we’ve been trying to learn from the experiences of our guests about what it’s like to try to advance the Kingdom of God or the reign of God or the rule of God out in the secular world. And now, for the first time in this little series we’re doing, we have on our show a guest who’s tried to do it both in the secular world, working at a secular law firm, and at a Christian university. Could you just kind of think out loud with us for a little bit about the differences between your efforts to live out your faith in those two contexts? When you were a partner at a law firm out in the secular world what was your experience like trying to be a witness for Christ? What’s different about trying to advance the reign of God or the Kingdom of God in a uniquely Christian corporate setting? >>Watson: I will tell you that in the practice of law I had many friends who are very devoted Christians. Both at the law firm where I practiced and that are practicing in firms in other places all across the country. And I enjoyed that. I always tried to live out my faith with my clients, with people who were on the other side of the table from me. Perhaps if I had been practicing in a Wall Street firm or in Seattle or some other place I would not have had that type of liberty. But in the southeastern United States, yes, you can be a lawyer and, yes, you can be a Christian. And so it’s not as if I moved from a totally secular environment to a wholly ecclesiastical environment when I came to Samford. But at Samford I still believe we, as a university, have to give unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and we have to give to God what is devoted to God. And in some sense now I have an institutional responsibility where formally I was responsible for representing the interest of various clients. Now I feel like that I have a great responsibility for making sure that Samford is a model of Christian citizenship in the way that we strive to comply with the laws and do what the laws require consistent with our Christian mission. And one of the things I’ve really enjoyed, and as you asked about expanding the Kingdom of God, one of the things I’ve really enjoyed since coming to Samford is really trying to be on the front edge of a lot of issues involving Christian liberty. I want Samford to preserve its Christian identify to the fullest extent that is allowed in the United States Constitution. So, this permeates a lot of decisions we make as an institution. Particularly, when it comes to the application of various federal and state laws that might interfere with our first amendment liberties that we’re entitled to. So, there’s always a tension between religious liberty and government regulation. And that is the one area that I feel like that I have to be very diligent in, in protecting our Christian liberty, along with many other faith based institutions across the United States. In fact, I’ve developed some very good relationships with people that are in my position that are at other Christian schools across the country. We share a common purpose and a common calling. And we really enjoy collaborating with each other. >>Kristen Padilla: Clark, our faith is often tested in the difficult challenging times. Especially when there’s conflict in the workplace. And I’m sure you’ve had your own experiences of these challenging times. How has your Christian faith helped you in those tough times? How has it helped you when you experience conflict in the workplace? >>Watson: Well, I always start with my conviction that absolute truth is only found in the unchanging God of the Bible as revealed by his Son. And so it’s only through God’s revelation in Christ and in the scripture that life makes any sense to me. And as a lawyer, my career path has not surprisingly involved many conflicts, many disputes, many difficulties. That’s why people often need legal representation, because they are in adversarial situations. And I wind up being dropped into the middle of those. I always try to be a zealous advocate for my clients. Some of those situations I’ve handled better than others. But as I’ve matured in my faith I have increasingly measured the circumstances of the moment against what I know to be the truth of scripture. And that has been one of the great treasures of having been a Christian now for about 60 years, is you just develop a body of knowledge and experience and faith and you have past experiences that you can draw on that help you to deal with difficulties that you experience in the workplace. So, I will say, I have probably grown more in wisdom and faith from my interactions with difficult people than I have from the support of friends. That seems in congress, but I think it’s true. >>Doug Sweeney: Your wise faith has been a big help here at Beeson Divinity School as well. We’ve already mentioned you’re one of our board members, of course you’ve been on the Samford board as well. Your son-in-law is an alumnus of Beeson Divinity School. What do you like about Beeson? What drew you to Beeson? And what excites you about what the Lord is doing at Beeson these days? >>Watson: Well, Beeson has many wonderful attributes. Far more than I could mention. You that are on this conversation that we’re having right now are two of my very favorite people at Samford. And I’m very grateful for that. Dean Timothy George is the one who brought me into involvement with Beeson just as Dr. Tom Cortes brought me in to being involved with the board at Samford. And Dean George has been a long time friend. He served Beeson remarkably as its founding Dean. And I’m glad the benefit of his mind and his spirit is still active there in Beeson as he continues his scholarship. Dean Sweeney, I think you’re likewise going to be an exemplary leader for Beeson, and I’m excited about that and I look forward to seeing the school prosper under your leadership. New leadership brings new ideas and new ways of becoming better. And I think that is what is going to ... we’re going to see that at Beeson throughout the time that you’re leading us. So, thank you for coming. Beeson has a world class faculty, and I take every available opportunity to come hear them, see them, listen to them on YouTube, whenever I can – because I learn so much from them. But I probably learn more from them by just watching the community that they enjoy at Beeson. This great community of Christian scholars. And I’ve really liked to see how Beeson has so many similarities to Bonheoffer’s work from Life Together. That has always been one of my favorite books. It’s one I try to go back and read once a year, just because it’s so inspiring to me. I think the fingerprints of that book are all over Beeson. Finally, I’m excited about Beeson mostly because of its graduates. They are making a great difference in the world for the Gospel of Jesus Christ. They are a virtual army carrying the gospel out to all corners of the world. I am thankful for them. I pray for them. And I will do whatever I can to support them. >>Kristen Padilla: Clark, as we end the podcast could you share with us what God is doing in your life these days? What is God teaching you through his Word? Any encouraging word that you could leave us with? >>Watson: Well, I’m not sure how encouraging I can be, although I try to be a pretty positive guy. But we’re living in a very divisive time. Our culture is too often characterized by lack of civility, decency, and just common respect among people. I think this often comes from individuals who are emphasizing their personal rights and privileges over everything else. So, I think in the midst of this, Kristen, God is emphasizing to me that the common good is best realized by people who are united as followers of Christ. And I believe the message about the common good and the unity of people in Christ needs to be more prominent in the marketplace. I hope that the Lord will give me some voice in that. It’s not that our identities in careers or politics or social causes are bad things at all, but we should engage in those pursuits being motivated by our lives being grounded in Christ, not in the particular pursuit. I hope that makes some sense. >>Doug Sweeney: It does, indeed, and we say AMEN. You have been listening to Clark Watson, General Counsel for Samford University, former partner in the Birmingham Office of Balch & Bingham, a good friend to Beeson Divinity School, a board member, a father-in-law to an alumnus, a good friend to both the founding Dean of the Divinity School, and even to the brand new Dean. Thank you very much, Clark, for being with us. Thanks to all of you for tuning in and for keeping us in your prayers during this COVID season. Goodbye for now. >>Kristen Padilla: You’ve been listening to the Beeson podcast. Our theme music is written and performed by Advent Birmingham of the Cathedral Church of the Advent in Birmingham, Alabama. Our engineer is Rob Willis. Our announcer is Mike Pasquarello. Our co-hosts are Doug Sweeney and, myself, Kristen Padilla. Please subscribe to the Beeson podcast at www.BeesonDivinity.com/podcast or on iTunes.