Beeson podcast, Episode 485 Cokiesha Bailey Robinson Feb. 25, 2020 Announcer: Welcome to the Beeson Podcast, coming to you from Beeson Divinity School on the campus of Samford University. Now your hosts, Doug Sweeney and Kristen Padilla. Doug Sweeney: Welcome to the Beeson Podcast. I'm Doug Sweeney, here with my cohost Kristen Padilla. And we are delighted to welcome you into the middle of our first annual African American Ministry Emphasis Month at Beeson. In which we are blessed to have guests like Beeson alumna Cokiesha Bailey Robinson on campus, and on the podcast today. We love hearing and seeing the ways in which God is at work among the African American members of our Beeson family, and as I have gotten to know Cokiesha, I have grown quite sure, that you are simply going to love today's podcast. Doug Sweeney: A few announcements before we begin. Next month, we will convene our annual William E. Conger, Jr. lectures on biblical preaching, with Dr. Jared Alcántara of Baylor Truett Seminary. Dr. Alcántara will be with us March 17 through 19, speaking at Hodges Chapel at 11 o'clock each day. His presentations are free and open to the public, so we hope that you'll come. On March 23rd our Robert Smith Jr. Preaching Institute is hosting a day with a Beeson author event, that features our own beloved professor Gerald R. McDermott, who will retire at the end of this academic year. Doug Sweeney: We invite you to spend the day with Jerry as he teaches from his book, Everyday Glory: The Revelation of God in All of Reality. Which he spoke about on the podcast on December the 17th. Registration for this day with a Beeson author event is limited, and does cost $25, but that fee includes a copy of the book, lunch, refreshments and excellent teaching. You can find more information, and register on our website at beesondivinity.com/events. Now Kristen, would you mind introducing today's guest, Cokiesha Bailey Robinson. Kristen Padilla: Hello everyone and welcome to the Beeson Podcast. I'm so pleased to have the Reverend Cokiesha Bailey Robinson with us today. Cokiesha and I were in school together here at Beeson Divinity School, so we go way back. Dear friends, she is a preacher and mentor of women, a writer, and is the founder of Cross Spring Ministries out of Dallas, Texas. And she recently announced while she was at Beeson this week, that she has taken the position of associate Dean of Diversity and Inclusion at Grace College of Winona Lake, Indiana. And so we're so pleased with this new announcement Cokiesha. Kristen Padilla: And we can't wait to hear all that God is going to do in and through you at Grace College. She is married to Timothy, who is also a graduate at Beeson Divinity School, and she is currently working on her [inaudible] degree. And so, that's a lot to say, but we are so proud of you Cokiesha, and want to begin as we always do with you introducing yourself. We love to hear how God has called you to follow him and to pursue ministry. And so if you could tell us about your faith journey, your call to ministry, and what led you to Beeson. Cokiesha Robins...: Thank you all so much for having me. It's so good to be here home, at Beeson. I'm a daughter of Dallas, Texas. Go cowboys. I am the eldest biological child of pastor E. K. Bailey and Sheila Bailey of Dallas, Texas. Their love allowed them to find each other at Bishop College in Dallas and the rest is history. My father is the founding pastor of Concord Church of Dallas, Texas that was established in 1975. So I literally grew up with Concord. I was two years old when the church was planted, and it's been wonderful to see the church. Concord Church of Dallas and the Global Church Service Seminary, before I got to seminary. Cokiesha Robins...: I grew up in a Christian home. I accepted Christ at eight years old. My children's pastor, pastor Charles Martin, preach sermons that helped me to come to understand the love of Jesus Christ. I fell in love with Jesus as a child. My parents cultivated my faith journey, and I grew up and my superheroes were not Wonder Woman and Superman, they were pastors on our staff. And I remember being at a daycare center next door to the church and during recess I would run to the fence and look through, and I would wave at the pastors going to lunch and secretly pray, "I want to be one of them when I grew up." Cokiesha Robins...: Well, women were not in our context. So I didn't know if I were praying a prayer that could really happen, but I'm a product of Dallas Independent School District, Fisk University, Beeson and now Baylor and I've come to fall in love with the evolution of my own womanhood, and still learning and discovering who I am. My dad says preachers don't find their real voice until they're 50, but it just feels mighty nice to give myself permission to say hello to who I am in each season, and I'm home at Beeson because Beeson helped me to find and cultivate that voice. Doug Sweeney: Cokiesha Some of our listeners probably knew your father personally, and I'm sure many of them have heard of him, but probably not all of them know enough about your dad, E.K. Bailey. He was one of the most influential preachers in American history, certainly in the last generation and his preaching conferences serve all kinds of people for many years. Could you just say a word or two about your dad, for people who don't know enough about him? And then, I bet our listeners would also be interested to know or hear from you, what was it like growing up as his daughter and thinking about a call to ministry as the daughter of E.K. Bailey. Cokiesha Robins...: Oh goodness. This podcast may last seven hours, but it's always a treat to share the story, Kierkegaard's words, "Life is lived forward, but understood backwards." Is my favorite because it's like a life mission statement. The older I get, the more it makes sense in reflection. E.K. Bailey, how do I answer that? To me he was just a good daddy. I'm honored and very humbled that people remember him as the evangelical states man by God's grace, as a pioneer in expository preaching, he would point that credit to his mentor, A. Louis Patterson, who now lives with him with the Lord. Cokiesha Robins...: E.K. Bailey is the son of Dr. V.M. Bailey who lives with God and the late Victoria Curtis my grandparents. It's really precious to me that my grandfather never knew he would have a preaching son. His life was taken when my dad was a high school student, so he never knew he would have two sons that will become preachers, and he sure didn't know he would have a preaching granddaughter, and now a couple of preaching granddaughters. And who knows, maybe some preaching great granddaughters. My dad was from California ... Oakland, California. Cokiesha Robins...: Dr. W.K Jackson was his mentor who pastored the historic st John Baptist church of Oklahoma. He said, "Your dad has passed away, but he would want to make sure you go to college, so I'm giving you a one way bus ticket to Dallas, Texas so you can go to Bishop College." Two African American preachers of that day, Bishop was the Mecca. I'm jealous that I didn't get a chance to go. There he fell in love with preaching, black preaching. He met my mother. Thanks be to God. My godfather, Dr. Melvin Wade and countless friends. Bishop produced, Dr. AB said, and my mentor and pastor in Birmingham, Dr. Freddy Haynes, Dr. Ralph were so many black preaching giants. Cokiesha Robins...: It was in Dallas that my father pastored the Mount Carmel Baptist Church in Southern Dallas, and it was in that season that the Lord led him to be the founder of Concord Church. At Concord Church, he demonstrated like you Doug Sweeney pioneer in leadership. God allowed the church to start with 200 people that took a chance on a young pastor. Dad gave credit his entire life to Miss A.W. Blair, who had influence that he did not have at that time with the bank. She went in and said, "Give this man a loan for his church, because I believe in what God has told him to do." And he always honored her because he said, "They gave me the loan, not because of who I am, but because of who she is." Cokiesha Robins...: And so I just thank God for a daddy that reminded us, "You don't get anywhere by yourself and never to forget the people that lifted you." He gave his entire life to Concord Church to preaching. He established the E.K. Bailey Expository Preaching Conference. I feel like I grew up with the conference. It celebrates 25 years this year by the grace of God. Now it's on the tremendous leadership of Pastor Bryan Carter, who's doing a stellar job as the pastor of Concord for the 16th year. Cokiesha Robins...: His greatest joy outside of being married to my mother and having children ... and he had one adopted son, A.B, who now lives with the Lord. He passed right away around 1996, then I was his first biological child. He has my baby sister who's 42, and my baby brother who is 38. The conference and the church are his greatest legacies, but he was also an author and it's important to me that people meet E.K. Bailey, whom they will never meet, because he's left a legacy of work that we believe will benefit the next generation of preachers. Kristen Padilla: Share with us Cokiesha, if you will, about how God changed the direction of your vocation. You went to radio. Work for radio and then God called you out of that. If you could talk to us about that change in vocation, and then also how you were nervous at first to talk to your dad about that call, and how you saw God working your dad's heart in life. Cokiesha Robins...: Sure. As you know, we have the exact same experience. When you're a daddy's girl, you can't imagine the Lord calling you to do something that your dad isn't really ... Excuse my vernacular ... down with, so I dreamed of being a journalist, so from high school through college, I spent time writing for newspapers, magazines. I did an internship at Gospel Today Magazine under the great Teresa Hairston my [inaudible] everything that I had an interest in was writing books, writing articles, working for magazines, radio shows. I was very shy and introverted, and so I felt more comfortable having a voice without being seen, which is perfect for radio. Cokiesha Robins...: I worked at the Radio Advertising Bureau in Las Colinas, Texas, which was the joy of my life. Great friends, great information shared. I think I had two to three positions there and the last job was a writer. Radio gets results a writer. And I just remember I like the people and I like the job, but I feel like God wants me to do something else, and suddenly a job that I loved became a job where I felt like I was out of place. And I said, "Dad, I don't think I'm supposed to work at the Radio Bureau anymore." And he said, "Why, is somebody messing with you?" Cokiesha Robins...: I said, "No, I just don't feel full anymore at work." He's like, "They promoted you, they love you, it's great pay. I think you should stick it out. We don't run from problems in our family." I said, "I'm not running from a problem. I just sense God has something different." And I said, "Are there any openings at the church? I just sense I'm supposed to work at a church right now." He was like, "The only opening I have is for a secretary." That was before the fancy names and administrative assistant. This was late '90s. And I said, "I'll take the receptionist position." Cokiesha Robins...: He said, "I paid for you to go to college to be a receptionist?" So I saw the beginning of the struggle of pastor daddy. And I started having dreams of seeing myself in pulpits preaching. Which really freaked me out. And I'm like, "'Why would I have dreamed seeing myself as a preacher, when we don't believe women should preach?" The longing to work at the church became greater. And I said, "Dad, if you don't mind, I have to work at the church even as a receptionist." And he said, "Even if you get half the pay you're getting now?' Cokiesha Robins...: I said, "Even if I get half the pay." I knew I was no longer interested in a prestigious job, a fancy title or the pay. This had to be God at work. Daddy said, "Well, I'm going to interview you with other candidates, but you're not getting the job just because you're my daughter. You only get it if you're the best fit, and if you're qualified." No problem. I want to laugh so loud at the fact that I still can remember walking into his office and him shaking my hand, and him telling me, "Tell me about yourself." Cokiesha Robins...: And so in that moment he was full pastor Bailey. And then we get to, "You're not going to get special treatments because you're my child. I want you to answer this phone with excellence. This position will be the heartbeat of this church." Which in many ways was the Miss Sandy of Beeson until in our season here. And so I fell in love. "I thank you for calling Concord Church. This is Cokiesha, how may I serve you?" I can't tell you the joy I had in being the receptionist. When people would call and ask for pastors on staff that were at lunch, they would say, "Well, can you pray with me?" Cokiesha Robins...: And I will say, "My pleasure." And I started praying with people on the phone and I remember my dad saying, "Step into my office. I need to talk to you. Do you know you're the receptionist? Why are you praying with everybody?" But that showed me that God wanted to use an administrative role, a receptionist desk, to prepare heart for servitude, for humility and eventually, which would be the training ground that would lead to pastoral ministry, and itinerant ministry. I'm so thankful. I pray I was the best receptionist to the glory of God, and in that role, when the phones were quiet, the spirit would say, "Write messages. When the phones are quiet, write messages." Cokiesha Robins...: I'm like, "Why am I writing messages? I'm not a preacher." Life is lived forward and understood backwards. A couple of years later, the women's ministry director, another [inaudible] [Ms. Robbie Bard 00:15:23] said, "Will you be the first women's day speaker?" That was around 1999. I did a message called The Prisoner's Plea, and someone, my dear friend that lives with the Lord now, her name is [Rube Alita 00:15:40]. After the message she ran into me, she say, "Cokiesha, don't tell pastor Bailey I told you, but when you were speaking he said, I have to admit something to somebody. Ruby, my daughter's up there preaching." Cokiesha Robins...: I said, "He said that? He never said that to me." Well, as the years went by, the Lord revealed to me, "You're a preacher. Don't worry. I'll work it out with your dad. I'll even change the paradigm of the church and I'll change your insecure, introverted personality." And I just rejoice that God was moving all along. When I felt like he was passive, he was still active. And he had not forgotten me, and I had to remind myself, "He is fighting with tradition, not with me. He's not penalizing me. He's trying to unlearn what his mentors taught him." Cokiesha Robins...: And so I'm pleased to say that by the grace of God, maybe around August of 2003, he came to our church to say, "I want to apologize to the women that I didn't let preach. I want to apologize to my daughter, and I want to say I'm sorry to all of the people that said, I'm a woman, but I want to preach that I didn't allow. He said, "I've been fighting with what people taught me." He said, "But a blind man can see that Cokiesha is a preacher. And she wants to go to seminary. She's chosen Beeson, and I don't want her not to follow God because of her dad." I was such a daddy's girl. Cokiesha Robins...: I felt like if you call me, prove it by changing his mind, because I don't want to do anything that would ruin our BFF relationship as father and daughter. And God said, "Kiesha, I'm going to do it, but I'm jealous that you love your dad more than you love me. So I want you to die to pleasing him and I want you to become a God pleaser because right now you're a daddy pleaser. And if you will give me the place on your heart you gave to your daddy, I'll open up doors that no man can close and I'll change the paradigm of this church." Cokiesha Robins...: So daddy announces it to the church. The church erupts. It's almost as though they've seen this coming for years. And a little girl walked up to me after church, at 12 years old to say, "Ms. Cokiesha when pastor Bailey said that for you, did he mean it for little girls like me too?" Now she's in her 20s preaching. So I want to just encourage women and men that are listening today that God changes people, personalities and paradigms. If we could have the courage and faith to wait on him. Doug Sweeney: So Caucasian. How does Cross Spring Ministries fit into this? A handful of years ago you founded it. Cokiesha Robins...: Yes. Doug Sweeney: And it is supported some of the preaching you've been doing. Cokiesha Robins...: Yes sir. Doug Sweeney: And we've just told our audience that you're going to go to Grace College now as well. Would you just tell us a little bit about how the Lord's used the ministry, how it came to be, and will it continue as you head on to Grace College? Cokiesha Robins...: One of the favorite hymns of the churches has lyrics that says, "Time is filled with swift transition. And now I've lived long enough to know that is the truth." So I had the privilege by God's amazing grace to serve on the administrative staff of Concord Church in Dallas under my dad, but then God extended the grace to come home, to serve under the current pastor, Pastor Bryan Carter, and I'm sure we'll get to the question of some preaching mentors. He is one of many. I learned so much from he and my father. On his staff, I had an opportunity to serve the pastoral staff, and it was such a great joy to work as a thank you note to the people that raised me and taught me the Bible. Cokiesha Robins...: In the course of those four to five years, I had so much excitement about ministry, so much I wanted to share that Beeson taught me and that Mount Neboh Church and Harlem taught me where I served as assistant pastor, and then there was so much I had to learn because the culture of Concord had changed and I wanted to experience church under our new pastor. I oversaw ministries like Baptism Ministry, New Believers Ministry, the simulation team, the writing team, and the lifeline ministry under the leadership of our pastor, and because I had tremendous growth ministry leaders. Cokiesha Robins...: But after maybe about the third year, the Lord whispered to me, "I want you to prepare for a shift." And I said, "A shift to do what?" And he said, "Once you quit your job, I'll show you." And I remember saying, "I beg your pardon?" I went on fast, because I believe in fasting for spiritual clarity. And I said, "God, please make it crystal clear. I'll do it." And God said, "I want you to quit your job." I said, "But do you mind telling me where I'm going?" And he said, "I'll tell you after you resign." I'm like, "Well, when I resign, will I still keep getting a check every two weeks [inaudible] event?" Cokiesha Robins...: God was silent. And maybe about a year later, I came to understand that this was divine discontentment. It didn't mean that there was a problem pushing me out. It didn't mean that I no longer love the place where I was. Now I see. You don't have fall out just because you're moving on, and I share with people that transition is not a dirty word. Transition is biblical. Jesus came as a baby, but he went to glory as a man. We have to stop making people feel bad when it's transition season. And the Lord said, "Cokiesha, I'm calling you to be an evangelist, but I don't have to give you an itinerary. Follow me. I want you to do some writing. I want you do some preaching." Cokiesha Robins...: And I remember saying, "But who in the world's going to invite me?" He said, "I'll worry about that. You don't market yourself, I'll market you, I'll put your name on people's hearts, but you can't be an evangelist, coming to church every day in this office that says Director of Growth." We live in a world that demands you to tell them your next move. Will I look like a fool saying I'm quitting and I don't know where I'm going? And God said, "Remember when you had to die to people pleasing to become a preacher? We're going to go through that again." It just showed me that it's cyclicals. Cokiesha Robins...: Forgiveness is not a one time event. You have to keep dying daily, to those offended feelings and he said, "I want you to die again to pleasing people. They don't have to know, but I know." And my pastor was so kind. He said, "You're resigning where? What are you going to do?" And I said, "I don't know, but God says I'm going to be writing, preaching, maybe at seminaries, maybe colleges, maybe conferences. I just know he told me to release this office to the next person that's supposed to work here." He said, "We believe that, we'll be praying for you." And for a year God was silent. Cokiesha Robins...: And in that silence, glory to God, he gave me rest, because I was going through spiritual burnout. He gave me a chance to move to Houston where my husband had received a new job. So I got a chance to be Mrs. Robinson, and then he spoke to me. "I want you to establish a ministry called Cross Spring Ministry." Which gets to your question. "I want this to be a full time itinerate ministry that only has two objectives, preach the living water, and provide physical water for disenfranchised communities." So it's a ministry that allows for preaching, teaching and mentoring on the move, it's a full time mobile ministry. Cokiesha Robins...: Most of these opportunities have come from preaching at women's conferences, Christian seminaries, colleges, writing some. I'm a current writer for Our Daily Bread voices division. That gives me great joy. It's been a season of awesome flexibility. I've gotten a chance to mentor college students and seminarians on my off days. And I'm very grateful, it's been five fulfilling years of mobile ministry, but now, the Lord is shifting gears again, so my Cross Spring schedule to answer your question, we'll submit next year to the schedule of Grace College. Cokiesha Robins...: So I will no longer be a full time itinerant preacher, I'll be a full time Associate Dean, that has an itinerant ministry, as our schedule will allow. Kristen Padilla: Talk to us about mentoring other people. You talked a lot about that during your visit here at Beeson, and you've used the cross as a way to talk about mentoring. So talk to us about what is Christian mentoring look like? Who are some of your mentors who have modeled this for you and what can we learn about mentoring? Cokiesha Robins...: I appreciate that. I do believe the Christian counselor that offered this paradigm that I strive to live by a mentoring, that we should have relationships that mimic and mirror the cross. People in our lives that are pouring into us, people in our lives that are alongside of us, people in our lives that we are pouring into. And so I'm very thankful for people like Dr. Smith, who's at that top level pouring down Dr. A.B. Sutton, Pastor Bryan Carter, Bishop Vashti McKenzie, Dr. Cynthia Hale, Dr. Patricia Outlaw, Dr. ... I could go on and on. Cokiesha Robins...: There's a whole host of witnesses that are pouring down African-American preachers. We also believe that we preach with our sages. So I believe I'm preaching with Gardner Taylor who's in glory and Louis Patterson, Dr. Patterson, who's in glory, Dr. Ella Mitchell, the wife of Dr. Henry Mitchell. I feel like we preach with sages, but then I have to have friends who are sorting things out as founders, as preachers, as pastors, as missionary, so my contemporaries, my Beeson friends that graduated with me, people like you. Cokiesha Robins...: We're all writing books, we're serving as speakers in our respected fields. But then now I have to have the responsibility and stewardship of meeting with people like Meechie who graduated much later. People like the next generation of Beeson women that we spoke with on yesterday. So it's important to me that when I travel preaching, that I always allow time to answer questions from the next generation. I never speak at a college without having coffee with students, lunch with students, or just sitting on a couch or a quiet spot to say, "How can I help you? What challenges do you have? Where are you hurting? Where do you need to vent or where do you need to be affirmed?" Cokiesha Robins...: Some seasons don't allow it weekly, but it's important to me to make sure that my ministry is just not the Cokiesha Show. I have a responsibility to share the gospel and to write because of calling, but I also have a responsibility and stewardship to make sure I'm bringing people alongside. So in this new role at Grace, the role will grow as Cokiesha will grow, and I pray I'll bump into other deans, our future deans that I can pour into. I think it's important that we are flexible and give elasticity to the definition of mentoring, because mentoring in my parents' generation was getting a book and sometimes sitting down and going through this week is the first chapter of this book. Cokiesha Robins...: And I remember Henry Blackaby, Experiencing God, still one of my faves. I will sit down with someone every week and go through a chapter. So I thought the only way to mentor is to get a book, and to meet me and to talk about it. Well, that's one way. But there are people in this city that mentored me that didn't even know they were mentoring. So it's important to live a witness for the people that feel like, "You don't know me, but I'm watching you on Facebook. I'm inspired by your quotes. I'm inspired by your books. I'm inspired by your witness." But it's also important to be available if somebody has a quick text. Cokiesha Robins...: This generation likes a lot of text mentoring. I've had to see that mentoring has to be multifaceted, multi-sensory. Sometimes I'm mentoring through messenger, texts, phone calls, but my favorite mentoring is face to face saying, "How may I serve you in this season?" Doug Sweeney: Yesterday in chapel, you delivered a powerful sermon from 2 Timothy 3, and we're going to post it on the web and we hope that people listening right now will actually watch the whole sermon for themselves. But both for the ones who will and the ones who won't, would you mind just summarizing the message you gave us yesterday, and maybe think about applying it in a way that'll encourage our podcast audience? Cokiesha Robins...: Thank you all for supporting the Chapel Service. I understand my Birmingham pastor, Dr. Sutton was there. I didn't know that I would be re missed without giving him a shout out, because he still pastors me. Thank you for your presence, Dr. Sutton. And to all of my mentors that were present, it just meant so much to look at and see Dr. Day and Dr. Outlaw and others. Dr. Smith. If you weren't there and if you don't listen to the podcast, but I hope you will, we dealt with 2 Timothy 3 verses 10 through 17, where we didn't believe we had the time to unpack it fully, however, the skeleton of it is to be faithful. Cokiesha Robins...: To be faithful in adversity and simply to stand. We talked about Donnie McClurkin song. What do you do when you've done all you can? You just stand. Paul and Timothy in this text, demonstrates a biblical paradigm of stewardship, mentorship, discipleship, and they are showing us that we must duplicate ourselves on this journey of life as Christian believers, and to be a good soldier. Paul in many ways is beginning to [inaudible] about the evening of his life. He knows that his life will end soon, but he's saying, "I'm not worried. They can take my life, but they can't take the gospel. Cokiesha Robins...: And he's saying, "Timothy, nobody knows me better than you do. You've watched me dance." Remember, do not develop spiritual amnesia. Do not have a watered down theology just because you are persecuted. Know that persecution will come, but God has given you everything that you need to do to stand and to withstand. So be faithful, and then do what I did for you. Duplicate yourself. Doug Sweeney: Amen. You have been listening to the Reverend Cokiesha Bailey Robinson, one of Beeson's best and brightest. She is the founder of Cross Springs Ministries, based in Dallas, Texas, but starting next month, she will be the Associate Dean for Diversity and Inclusion at Grace College in Winona Lake, Indiana. We are very grateful to you Cokiesha for your faithfulness and ministry, and your willingness to minister to us this week. And we're grateful to all of you for tuning in. Please tune in as often as you can. We love you and we want to serve you, goodbye for now. Kristen Padilla: You've been listening to the Beeson Podcast. Our theme music is written and performed by Advent Birmingham of the Cathedral Church of the Advent in Birmingham, Alabama. Our engineer is Rob Willis. Our announcer is Mike Pasquerilla. Our cohost are Doug Sweeney and myself, Kristen Padilla. Please subscribe to the Beeson podcast at beesondivinity.com/podcast or on iTunes.