Beeson podcast, Episode 474 Patrick and Kennerly King Dec. 10, 2019 Announcer: Welcome to the Beeson Podcast coming to you from Beeson Divinity school on the campus of Samford University. Now your hosts, Doug Sweeney and Kristin Padilla. Doug Sweeney: Welcome to the Beeson Podcast. I'm your host, Doug Sweeney, here with my cohost, Kristin Padilla, and we're recording this episode in what is usually sunny southern California, but where it is raining and very cloudy today. Doug Sweeney: We are here to attend the annual meeting of the Evangelical Theological Society. One reason we love coming to this annual meeting is that it allows us to connect with Beeson alums, who are serving in places far away from Birmingham, Alabama, who either live in the host city or who have traveled to be at this conference. Doug Sweeney: Today, we're with two such alumni who serve right here in San Diego, but before we get to today's conversation, let me say just a brief word about our upcoming admission deadline, and an early application giveaway we're running. If you or someone you know has sensed a call from the Lord to serve Him in vocational ministry and is considering seminary, we would love for you to think of Beeson. Our Fall 2020 application deadline is February 15, but those who apply one month early, by January 15, will be entered into a drawing for a $500 scholarship. Doug Sweeney: So if you're on the fence about applying, or you're planning to apply, but tend to wait until the last minute, we hope that you will submit your application early for a chance at this additional scholarship. Now Kristen, please get us started by introducing our two guests. Kristen Padilla: Welcome to the Beeson Podcast, and welcome to Patrick and Kennerly King. Patrick and Kennerly are two of our distinguished alumni. As Doug has already mentioned, they are serving in San Diego. They are married, if you haven't already figured that out. Patrick is the lead pastor of Covenant Church, and Kennerly is the spiritual formation director at the same church, Covenant Church. They both graduated in 2011 with a Master of Divinity degree. Kennerly's father, Doug Webster, is a professor at Beeson, and he and his wife are just beloved members of our community. Kristen Padilla: Kennerly and Patrick have two sons, Micah and Jonah. And that about sums it up, right? Patrick King: You got it. Kristen Padilla: But it doesn't. We want to know more about you, and I gave just a brief introduction, but if you could just tell us a little bit more about you, where you come from, your faith journey, and anything else you want to share. Kennerly King: I actually got to mainly grow up in San Diego, so third grade through college, and really came to love it more after I left, and just felt more drawn to it after I didn't have it anymore. But grew up in a Christian home. I have wonderful parents, and just really got to grow up around ministry, and in the church, and I think I just particularly appreciate that I really got to see kind of the joys and struggles of ministry up front in a way that was age appropriate as I grew up, but just a way that was authentic, and just allowed me to see it, I think, for all of its glory, and all of its hardships. Patrick King: I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago, a large family, extended family. My dad is the youngest of 10 kids, and so I have two younger brothers, and so we grew up there. Loving parents, a great home. From a spiritual perspective, more of a cultural Christian home, so we would go to church maybe on Christmas or Easter. I was aware of Jesus and church, but no sense of a real relationship with Christ, and ended up going to a Christian high school, called Wheaton Academy, for sports, for soccer, and really kind of got discipled there, and heard the gospel there. Patrick King: Sophomore year, justification, as much as I understood it then, clicked, and became a Christian there. We ended up meeting at Wheaton College then. For some reason Kennerly left San Diego and went to Chicago for college, and I stayed in Chicago, and so we met there. Yeah. Doug Sweeney: How did the two of you make it to Beeson Divinity School? It's easier to guess how Kennerly made it, since her dad is a professor there. But Patrick, I think I've heard you were in business of some kind, and decided at a certain point in your young adult years to stop doing the business, and go to divinity school. How did that all happen? Patrick King: I started Wheaton College as a Bible major, and switched to business. I think the seeds of it were there. I graduated, I moved to Arizona, was in an entrepreneurial type job. We had gotten married, and lived there. I think we both didn't know exactly what it looked like, but were sensing kind of a call or pull from the Lord to kind of be vocationally involved in the church. Patrick King: We had heard about Beeson about a year, year and a half prior to that with Doug and Virginia moving to Alabama. I actually enrolled in the MBA MDIV program, initially. But you don't take MBA classes the first year, and so I liked them DIV classes so much, I just dropped the MBA and stuck with the MDIV. Yeah, that's the short of it. Yeah. Yeah. Kristen Padilla: Well, talk to us about life after Beeson. You both had a call to ministry, you prepared at Beeson, and then you went to Michigan, as I understand it, for a little bit, but then God called you both back to San Diego. Why back, for you Kennerly, back to San Diego, and this church that you both serve at, from what I understand is a church revitalization. Can you talk to us about that and what that has looked like? Kennerly King: Yeah, Michigan, we were there three years. Patrick was an associate pastor there, and that was just a really wonderful way of fleshing out a lot of what we had learned in a church that was already very well established. It gave us an opportunity to be able to try doing things with the support of knowing that if we fail it's going to be okay. But I think it also just spurred in us wanting to be in a culture where the church was, I guess, like the post-Christian environment that is really more and more prevalent everywhere. We were just aware of it being in San Diego. Kennerly King: In light of that, we were really considering strongly wanting to do church planting. We we're really pursuing that, and looking into that, and then we were driving home from like a church planting event. It was at, I think, like a bar, and they were having Q&A time with different church planters in our denomination in Evangelical Presbyterian Church, EPC. Kennerly King: We were driving home kind of discouraged, feeling like, wow, I don't know if this is for us, but we feel very drawn in this direction. How do we reconcile these tensions and these conflicting feelings? And then we got a call from a fellow pastor friend in San Diego saying he had an opportunity, wondering if Patrick was still interested in being in San Diego. That was our introduction to the church that we now call home, and our church family. You can maybe get some of the history of Covenant. Patrick King: Yeah, well maybe alongside that too, while we were exploring this church planting conversation, I'd read a book called Church Planting is for Wimps by Mike McKinley, and his story, and his family started revitalizing a church, so it introduced that category for us. In the midst of that, I think in the church in Michigan, I did that StrengthFinders exercise, and my number one strength was maximizer. So it was creating these categories, I think, were preparing us for this phone conversation from this friend in San Diego. Patrick King: Covenant, in one shape or form, is over 100 years old. In the 60s and 70s, it was a church of about 900 members, half of its budget was going to missions, it was a really thriving community, but the neighborhood that it was rooted in, that it's building in, kind of took a little bit of a turn. I think that, coupled with just different dynamics in the church, when we arrived and started talking with them, it was a church of about 60 or 70 people that had this rich history, and had this building in this part of the city, the North Park neighborhood, that was now coming back and being revitalized. Patrick King: A sweet group of people who love Jesus, and wanted to see their church connect with the neighborhood, and just were looking for a couple to help them do that. That's kind of how we entered into that conversation with them. Doug Sweeney: Oh, what is this church like now? I know on the website you talk about it as being intergenerational. Has it grown a little bit from the 90 that it was when you arrived, and how are things going these days? Patrick King: Yeah. It's a community of about 150 on Sunday, and we have some folks who have been members for 60 years, and then some who've been there for six months. I think it really spans the ages of 20 to we're celebrating a 90th birthday party coming up soon. It's a real credit to the long-time members who have allowed us to kind of experiment with some changes to be able to connect with the neighborhood in a new way. Patrick King: I would say it's a really healthy household of faith. It's a diverse community. San Diego is a big Navy town, so you have a contingent of folks who are here for three to five years from the Navy, from different parts of the country. You have long-time San Diegans, you've got folks who had landed in North Park because it's this interesting cultural neighborhood with restaurants and things to do like that. It's a typical west coast city all mixed together, and so it provides an interesting, and challenging, and fun environment to pastor and minister. Yeah. Kristen Padilla: Kennerly, I'm interested to hear from you what a spiritual formation director does. Not a lot of churches have one. What does your role look like and what role does spiritual formation play specifically in your church? Kennerly King: It's been a really exciting role to be in. I get to be on the preaching team and be in part of that rotation, so I'll get to preach Advent coming up, and then overseeing the adult education classes. We recently had a class where, actually, my freshman college roommate was able to teach the class, which was really exciting, on just how we can be good stewards with our diets, and how we live, sustainable living. That's her field of expertise over at Point Loma. It was a really neat opportunity to see just how people's gifts outside of the church can be used to bless our church community. Kennerly King: I feel like I see spiritual formation as just really kind of a broad term in the sense of our spiritual development happening in all aspects of the church. The content of those classes has just been a way for people to grow in community, and relationships with each other, as well as in just knowledge and learning. And then encouraging the leaders that do community groups at our church. We just recently had a meeting with them, and they're doing just wonderful work of shepherding their smaller flocks within the bigger flock, and being able to pour into them, and encourage them, and just continue to give them tools so that they are ongoing learning in discipling others. Doug Sweeney: You spoke earlier, Kennerly, about San Diego and other parts of the country as well being relatively post-Christian these days. Of course Birmingham itself is more secular than it used to be, but I imagine San Diego feels more secular, and more post-Christian than even Birmingham does. What difference does that make for the way you approach spiritual formation? And I'd love to hear Patrick weigh in as well. I mean, what difference does it make for the way people do ministry here in San Diego? Kennerly King: I think it definitely has its unique... I guess to start positively, I find it really refreshing in some ways because people are maybe just more honest from the get-go of where they're coming from, and where they're starting. I think what can be sobering is that there's so much deconstruction of ideas going, and a skepticism towards things that can be challenging to speak into, and to do it in an authentic and thoughtful way. But I have noticed that maybe a strength of just being able to do ministry in this kind of time and place in history is that the value that people find, I think, and if you really listen to them, and care for them as a person, that there is more of a willingness to then hear the truth spoken in love. Kennerly King: It has its challenges though in just nuancing how you approach different truths, I guess, and just not assuming any Sunday morning everyone who walks in the door, there's no kind of general paradigm that they're all coming from. You're just operating on... It can feel at times like you're operating on more of a fragile stance, but really I think that's where the blessing of being able to speak God's truth comes because we get to stand in the firm footing of the gospel, and then just sort of love that into people I guess. Patrick King: Yeah. A couple of thoughts just from a communicating, a preaching standpoint, you just can't assume people know things. You have to do a lot of translation work, and if you're going to bring in theological words, you need to work hard to translate them. I think also everyone has some narrative that they're bringing in to the church about life, about their story, about relationships. I don't think they always realize they are, but they are, and so that's both a challenge, but also kind of fun to help them realize, okay, this is what you're thinking about life, and this is the Jesus way, this is the gospel, and how do those line up? Patrick King: Trying to help people know where they're at even maybe more than they do. I think something that's really helpful for us is just we use the phrase, and we got it from someone else, called hospitable worship. We talk a lot about hospitality with our leadership just from how people are greeted when they walk into the space, to we have a five minute greeting time in the middle of our service, to we have, you know, [inaudible] have these things. We have coffee beforehand, we've got food afterwards, and I feel if people, if they're, let's say, post-Christian or have been away from church for a while, if they're seen, and they're talked to, and they're cared for, it gives us a long runway then to share about scripture and and who Christ is. Doug Sweeney: The two of you make it sound like an exciting challenge. Patrick King: Yeah. That's why we're here. Kennerly King: An adventure. Patrick King: Yes. Doug Sweeney: Yeah, more of our Beeson students and Birmingham folks should consider moving into context like this to do ministry. Is there a downside that you'd want to let our listeners know about as well? What would be the most frustrating or burdensome aspects of ministering in such a secular context? Kennerly King: I think I just mentioned the deconstructing, like the constant questioning, or maybe people's tendency to, this is maybe a terrible image, but throwing the baby out with the bath water, like they had one bad experience in a church, and therefore all Christians and all Christianity can get swept up in that. You can get compassion fatigue, right? Because I mean, the church is made up of sinners, it's a hospital, so it's probably par for the course to have some experience that was difficult. Kennerly King: But just trying to help people weather that and see through that. I think that, well particularly in San Diego, it is a really fun city, and so there's a lot of distractions. I think we just live in a time where there is, from phones and technology to nice weather in San Diego, there's a lot of opportunity to be distracted, and to be drawn away from gathering for worship on a Sunday or community group during the week. Patrick King: I think just praying for patience. You have to walk with people for a long time, and help them to kind of realize who they are in Christ. Those aren't quick changes, and so just the long road of, kind of like Miss Peterson, a long obedience in the same direction with people. I think sometimes you feel more patient than others. Yeah. Kristen Padilla: Patrick, you mentioned the community where your church is located, and it's gone through quite some changes over the last decades. Talk to us about the context in which it is in a neighborhood that does have immigrants and refugees, what that has looked like for your church when it comes to outreach, and then maybe the kind of impact that those people groups have had on your church. Patrick King: Yes. Yeah, I think we're still just learning, and observing, and not feeling like we have all the answers, but just a posture of humility around that. We're about 25 minutes from the border, and so I think a big piece of us is partnering with organizations that are peacemaking and loving our neighbors, our immigrant, refugee neighbors. Our church has invested in a group called San Diego Refugee Tutoring. We're in a church that is a little bit, I guess you could call it, hipster. But two miles away is an incredibly large refugee community. At the Ibarra Elementary School, refugee students are being tutored there. About 20 people from our folks go Tuesday and Thursday night, and tutor there. Patrick King: There's an organization in San Diego called Hope for San Diego, and they're this middle man between churches and organizations, and trying to connect them. Hope for San Diego has brought Matt [Sorens] twice to San Diego. He's with World Relief, and kind of the leading evangelical expert on this topic. So he's spoken at our church twice. Patrick King: I think it's just this posture of educating our community. our leaders have gone to the border into Tijuana a couple times. We're leading a group of 20 of our leaders in January just to go, to see, to learn, to talk. Just trying to kind of step out of the political conversation, and just say, "Okay, our neighbors are a variety of different types of people, including immigrants and refugees, and so how do we enter into their situations and love them?" Tutoring's a big way we're doing that right now. Doug Sweeney: Have you been surprised at all by how God has worked, maybe not just in San Diego, but in your own congregation as well? Any encouraging stories you'd have to share with our listeners about what you've been able to witness God do that maybe took you back a little bit, you didn't anticipate, but you were really glad to see? Patrick King: We have, like any church, signs on our building, that says, "Join us at 10:00 AM for worship." There's a brand new condo complex across the street from us, and so three Sundays ago, a guy named Steven in his 30s came and worshiped with us, came back again, and came to the membership class that we just had, and shared that he'd been staring at that sign for six months, and felt like he should start reading the Bible. So he read the whole new Testament. Doug Sweeney: Wow, what does the sign say? Patrick King: It just says, "Join us, 10:00 AM." [crosstalk] He just really connected with the church, and he's just really excited about Jesus as he says right now. Doug Sweeney: Wonderful. Patrick King: That's just a sign on a building. We just talk about just trying to be in our neighborhood an outpost of hope. We're on the corner of Howard Avenue and 30th street, and just can we be a presence for the gospel in our neighborhood? I mean, every Sunday you walk in, and you see people from all across the country, and huge age spectrum, and different backgrounds and ethnicities gathering to worship. I feel like just Sunday, these people who wouldn't ordinarily be friends or a community is this new community because of the work of the spirit. Every Sunday reminds me of that- Kennerly King: I think also too, we've had a growing number of, maybe like, I guess, typical millennials. That age bracket of just people who have not been in church for a while, and then have sort of tiptoed back in, and they just have found something that I think they really value in gospel-centered preaching, but then also being seen and known in a Christian community. That seems like a first experience for a lot of people. It's just refreshing to be around as they discover that, and get to enjoy it. You'll have a 20 something going and helping a 90 year old, or I guess she was more 80s, like with her garden, and just seeing those relationships form that otherwise probably wouldn't happen. Patrick King: It's neat. There's a lady named Jenny who's been at the church, I mean, since she was a child, and she's just been praying for the past few decades that the church would grow again. For her to be able to witness it becoming a stable, healthy community, it's just neat to see her prayers being answered in ways. Kennerly King: I think we also made it unique with the work of revitalization. We've weathered maybe some harder seasons of change. Change is just always hard for people at any stage of life, and then change in your church has just its own dynamics of... you know, people feel ownership, which is a really good thing, but then you have to walk through how change happens, like the process. I think just having been there several years now, being able to see how we've been able to weather it together, I think that is just a gift from the Holy Spirit, and just how trust has been formed, and how we can appreciate now each other's gifts, and do life together. Doug Sweeney: That's wonderful. Well friends, God is at work among Beeson alumni all over the world, even here in San Diego, California. You have been listening to pastors Patrick and Kennerly King, Beeson alums who now serve at Covenant Church here in San Diego, California. Thank you very much both to you, Kennerly, and to you, Patrick, for being with us. It's a lot of fun reconnecting with you here on the west coast. God bless you in your ministry, and thank you everybody for listening to us. Goodbye for now. Kristen Padilla: You've been listening to the Beeson Podcast. Our theme music is written and performed by Advent Birmingham of the Cathedral Church of the Advent in Birmingham, Alabama. Our engineer is Rob Willis, our announcer is Mike [Pasquerillo 00:24:01]. Our cohost are Doug Sweeney and myself, Kristen Padilla. Please subscribe to the Beeson Podcast at BeesonDivinity.com/Podcast or on iTunes.